weezy
Rookie Member
Posts: 42
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Post by weezy on Dec 14, 2004 16:13:30 GMT -5
If any one is online or near a TV there is a news conference just about to get under way. TSN ( ch 13) 5:15 pm est.
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weezy
Rookie Member
Posts: 42
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Post by weezy on Dec 14, 2004 16:16:58 GMT -5
fyi...live cyber cast as well click on the live link on the right hand side of the screen in orange www.tsn.ca
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weezy
Rookie Member
Posts: 42
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Post by weezy on Dec 14, 2004 16:33:38 GMT -5
Gotta give kudos to Bettman...he's standing his ground. He knows what kinda mess he's created and looks like he's trying to fix it before he gets kicked out the back door!
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Post by USApegger on Dec 14, 2004 18:19:07 GMT -5
I watched a part of Goodenow's press conference and he said twice while answering questions, that if the players didn't perform they new they would be gone. Now with guarenteed contracts, how does that happen? I was really surprised that nobody asked him a follow up question to that. To me that is just an outright lie. You can't get rid of players otherwise Yashin etc would have been long gone. Ian MacLeod Bemidji, MN
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Post by dreamcatcher on Dec 14, 2004 19:02:20 GMT -5
As I suspected, and mentioned on previous posts guys. The NHL'S counter offer, contained cost certainty using a soft cap of player salaries rolling back each level and maintaining it. Classic, and predictable. If the NHLPA doesn't accept this, which technically is a 2% difference in player revenues shared, they were full of crap from the beginning.
....And Goodenow has rejected it...lol...here come the Wpg Jets!!!
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Post by 3lackThorne on Dec 14, 2004 19:07:27 GMT -5
So... this was probably a good day for people wanting the NHL back in Winnipeg right....?
I'm still not sure.... what do you all think?
It sure can't *hurt* our chances, that's for sure....
_______________________________________________________________ Winnipeg deserves better than the Canucks prospects
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Post by USApegger on Dec 14, 2004 19:29:44 GMT -5
It can only help! I think today was the first time that Bettman has ever stated that franchises could go under, if there is no cost certainty. If they miss the year I think at least three franchises will be in serious trouble
Ian MacLeod Bemidji, MN
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Post by jets4life on Dec 15, 2004 0:11:45 GMT -5
I agree 100%
Bettman did the right thing. Now the ball is in the NHLPA's court again. And likely, they will concede defeat if the season is cancelled. Where are all the NHL'ers going to make the kind of money they have made in the NHL?
-Not in Europe (top salaries are $250,000 I believe)
-Not in the AHL
-Not in the WHA (It will never get off the ground)
If the season is cancelled, the players will begin to thing long and hard about this, and some will break ranks i'm sure. Way to go Bettman!!!
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Post by hawker14 on Dec 15, 2004 0:55:31 GMT -5
i read something in bettman's rhetoric, he was aloof and arrogant...and that's a bad place to be when you're negotiating. he knows the owners will never share revenue. however this must be at the heart of any successful salary cap system...ie the NFL. there's alot of talk about how hockey doesn't have a big US TV deal, but several teams have outstanding local contracts, ie. the Rangers, Islanders, Flyers. the players did their fair share by putting their 24% salary rollback on existing contracts on the table. however, if high revenue teams refuse to share their revenues, then that is the NHL's mess, not the players. is it fair to the players, that under the owner's proposal, the NY Rangers are looking at annual profits of $ 50 million, just so teams like Pittsburgh and Florida can be sustainable. in my opinion it's not. the NHL owners are interested in one thing only, and that's increasing their franchise values. they are astute and extremely rich businessman/corporations. most have businesses profiting from their NHL operations. see ordinaryleastsquare.typepad.com/dubi/2004/01/old_boss_new_bo.htmlTed Saskin is on record as saying that if the NHL owners commit to sharing 75% of their revenues, the NHLPA will accept a negotiable salary cap. Bettman cannot convince his owners to share revenues, which is ironic, as revenue sharing makes the NFL the most financially successful league in the world, so he's looking to get the money from the players. The players are who we pay to see. this is fact. The owners are increasing their revenues by an average of 9% each year, so these clubs, with revenue sharing, would be, without a doubt, viable and profitable businesses. I admit i wasn't a supporter of the players when the lockout started. however i've changed my view after carefully watching the events. In essence, my point is, without revenue sharing among the NHL owners, it doesn't matter what the eventual result of the CBA is, the NHL won't be competitive for lower revenue teams. Winnipeg may get a team, but we'll be the like the Flames and Oilers struggling to break even, while high revenue teams will continue poaching players...ie rent free luxury apartments, high $$$ personal services "endorsement" deals with team sponsors, etc. In the CFL, teams all cheat the salary cap, so i have no doubt the rich NHL teams will as well. For the NHL to be viable, they need to stop lying, SHARE their revenues, and THEN negotiate a salary cap. It is only then, that I see Winnipeg being able to successful ice a competitive and profitable team. The longer the lockout goes on, the greater our chances of getting a team will be, as most mediocre US markets will basically die. I have no doubt about Winnipeg getting a team back, but I question the viability of the NHL if a NEGOTIATED settlement isn't agreed to within the next 12 months. bettman talks about how much an economic partnership with the players is necessary for the NHL's future, but he can't even get the owner's to be "economic partners!. he's a lapdog who will most likely be fired within the next year.
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Post by vivianmb on Dec 15, 2004 9:56:36 GMT -5
very true hawker.i too see right through the nhl's arguement.in my heart i say the players are right,but the longer this mess goes on, the better for Winnipeg.one season is worth it if we get our team back.ever since the original six and Terrible Ted the owners are no saints.why cant they control THEMSELVES?why dont they trust THEMSELVES?because they are all liars and cheats.look at how they out bid each other for contracts.hey, sometimes they bid against themselves.if anyone here was a player ,they'd take the highest bid.can we blame Bobby Holik for taking 9 mil?No.is he worth it?definitely not.but that's the Rangers problem,not Holik's.One final point.THE OWNERS HAVE NEVER SAID THAT THEY WILL TIE TICKET PRICES TO SALARY CAP!Because they wont.If they can have a free market, then why cant the players?
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Post by Fan2 on Dec 15, 2004 13:13:08 GMT -5
Hawker, I have not seen where Ted Saskin made those comments about negiating a cap if there was 75% revenue sharing, I was wondering if you could provide a link as to where I can read about that.
The owners are only partly to blame for the escalating salaries, but the current system (or lack of system) automatically inflates salaries, even if the owners are financially responsible. For instance, qualifying offers for players who make less than the league average (more than half of the league) automatically increase by 5-10% depending on how low the players salary. Most of these players don't sign deals for more than 3 years, and are restricted free agents until 31, so they will automatically get 3-4 raises during that time. The other problem is with salary arbitration. The player usually asks for some rediculously high number, and the owner usually makes a qualifying offer, and then the arbitrator picks something in the middle based on salaries around the league. The salary is always above the players previous salary, and the owner doesn't have much choice but to pay it, or get rid of the player. All it takes is one George Steinbrenner to inflate the salary comparison, and arbitration takes care of the rest. Martin St. Louis is a restricted free agent this year I believe, and is going to ask for alot of money, TBay can either pay it, or lose fans for getting rid of their best player.
Whether you believe the NHL's numbers or not, it's quite easy to see that the current system is inflationary in nature.
Hawker, I agree that the owners have to implement a strict profit sharing program for the league to work as it should. The problem is that the owners are equally as greedy as the players, and the disparity between high profit teams, and the negative profit teams is huge, and the rich teams have alot to lose. The rich members of both sides don't want to give their money.
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Post by Believer on Dec 15, 2004 21:19:03 GMT -5
This awesome news for us.
In 1994 the owners gave in and within 2 yrs the economic structure was already out of wack.
If the owners accepted the 24% roll back and signed the deal. There would be nothing to stop some crazy owner/GM from offering a 30% raise the year after.
We need cost certainty (CAP), and this time it looks like the owners are sticking to their guns.
As much as I dislike Bettman and what he has done to destroy hockey in Canada, I think he realizes it and is doing something about it.
He will NEVER admit his mistakes though. But, who cares as long as he corrects it!
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Post by fan2 on Dec 16, 2004 8:47:36 GMT -5
Another reason that salaries have been blow out of preportion is that it is the GMs spending the owners money. Most GMs have free reign to make a team, and since they aren't spending there own money, they spend more than they should. GMs make money just like the players do, regardless of whether the team makes money. The reason the GMs are on the owners side is because the majority of them are fans of the game, and what it to be a competetive playing field where they all have a chance to get the best players.
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Post by dreamcatcher on Dec 16, 2004 8:53:59 GMT -5
....but fan2 are not the owners showing everyone that they do not trust their own GM'S by insisting on a capped system? If they truly did, then why wouldn't they move negotiations forward by working with the Luxury Tax proposal by counter offering a $1 for $1 tax on spending over a fixed payroll?
When the NFL had its players strike decades ago, before finally settling into their current cap and revenue sharing system, they spent a heck of a long time working under a luxury tax based system. One the NHL will not even consider.
It really boils down to the fact that the NHL entity doesn't trust the G.M'S of a number of NHL Teams enough to believe they will be fiscally responsible with spending. Just a thought.
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Post by fan2 on Dec 16, 2004 9:08:05 GMT -5
I agree that the owners don't trust there own GMs, which is in part, where the problem lies. The other part is that most of the owners don't know enough about the game to be able to manage there team (in the sense of signing the right players for there team), so they are forced to put it in the hands of someone who knows the game, but that person has no financial responsibility to the players that they sign. Now I'm sure that every contract goes across the owners desk, but the owners aren't as involved in the process as they should be. This may sound like I think it's the owners fault, and in part, it is, but I blame the GMs, players, agents, and current system, as much if not more than the players.
When people are spending someone else's money, they need to have some restriction, so they don't get carried away.
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Post by fan2 on Dec 16, 2004 9:09:18 GMT -5
oops, I meant to say "as much if not more than the owners"
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Post by dreamcatcher on Dec 16, 2004 9:31:30 GMT -5
Actually Fan2, I think you keyed on an important point. Don't be afraid to blame the Owners. I'll blame them for both of us! LOL
There are far too many businessmen out there too lazy or too afraid to educate themselves when they expand their business. If a Business man or group is looking to purchase an NHL Hockey club, he should also educate himself on the rules, agreements, pay scale, Corporate structures and the players across the league. Even if it requires going thru a complete list of over 800 players, following drafted and non-drafted players, players in Europe, rookies, and lower tier leagues. There are experts that a wealthy owner could hire, to put himself, or his ownership group through a two week training course, or classroom setting for Hockey 101 so to speak. Many of them simply cannot be bothered, and I think this is what hurt the league. Players and their agents taking advantage of these Green owners by driving the prices up on the G.M'S managing the finances of the hockey clubs with a mandate to put together a winner. The Rangers are a perfect example of this, before realizing that it was time to start right from scratch salary wise.
Thus, when hiring a GM, you can educuate HIM on what you know, and what you expect from him regarding his role in your organization. Alot of NHL G.M'S love the very green owners, that count on them completely to put together a profitable, talented hockey club, and then listen to the multitude of excuses of why they had to spend this much, or that much on a player such as Holik, whom anyone posting on this board, would've chosen to laugh in his face before shelling out that kind of money for a guy that at best, deserves maybe $700,000 a year!!
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Post by fan2 on Dec 16, 2004 11:20:22 GMT -5
I completely agree.
I think things would run alot smoother if owners educated themselves enough to do away with GMs.
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Post by Y2Jets on Dec 16, 2004 11:30:25 GMT -5
Ill give you that dreamer and fan. But lets be in the gm's. owner shoes. What are they supposed to do?. A PLAYER ALWAYS ASKS for as much as he thinks he is. Now if a gm says whoa!! thats alot. Well they can say no, but then player just whines and cry, bitches, holds out untill he gets his way. The owners/gm's are forced to make these damn contracts. because if they dont, the fans of that team will be pissed there not singing that player(and we know what will happend, attendance will go down). The Players know right now, they have gm's in there hands(with the cba that is in line right now, thats why they dont want to let there cba go). So they know one way or another they will get a contract with the cba like it is, from some gm. Im sick of the players whineing. You know everyone else Busts there asses to make money, there playing somethin love, having fun every day, being with there teammates, and making MILLIONS. Listen we are dealing with millions here, stop bitchin how much you make, a Million is a million, and your rich. The money has got to there damn heads
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Post by fan2 on Dec 16, 2004 11:40:51 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, I am completely on the owners side, but they are partially to blame, along with the system, GMs, players and agents. They've all had a hand in creating such a flawed system.
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