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Post by Oracle on Jan 19, 2009 12:11:58 GMT -5
Beg your pardon JHendrix but are you quoting Jim Silver as an honest and reliable source on what eventually killed the Jets? Anything he had to say on the mattern should be taken with a whole pillar of salt, he led the "Thin Ice" band of goofs.
While I agree there were and still are far too many who shared his BS class struggle "rich against the poor" attitude, the arena deal was done and the majority of Winnipegers weren't marching behind him screaming about more pressing needs. His views were tainted by his socialist politics and the purpose of his writings are only to support and give credibility to his politics. While what he said in that quotes can always be considered a factor it wasn't by any means the major factor. The major factors were what was going on in Bettman's, Shenkarow's, Loewen's and Aspers offices when all this unfolded.
Silver's assessment is lacking and biased.
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Post by jhendrix70 on Jan 19, 2009 14:42:44 GMT -5
Beg your pardon JHendrix but are you quoting Jim Silver as an honest and reliable source on what eventually killed the Jets? Anything he had to say on the mattern should be taken with a whole pillar of salt, he led the "Thin Ice" band of goofs. What are you talking about? Who said I agree with what Silver has had to say, it's part of the article....big deal! **Note: I just have someone point out that I may have been mistaken by what you said above. I'll make it clear; I have ZERO respect for Silver and what he did during the campaign to save the Jets. The guy is a tool and I didn't highlight his quote on the previous page because I agree with him! **
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Post by Oracle on Jan 19, 2009 16:54:13 GMT -5
Hendrix, my apologies for the improper assumption, yes the bolding made me think you were highlighting Silver's musings as words to be taken to the bank. What can I say it's easy to get the intended meaning of a person's post on an internet form confused especially when they quote others. No harm no foul, forgive my assumption.
Cheers!
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Post by ~Jiffy~ on Jan 19, 2009 20:08:39 GMT -5
you know it would be nice if north america could decide... pull the plug.. or let em live... (coyotes)
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Post by wagner3 on Jan 21, 2009 2:18:04 GMT -5
Gretzky holding talks with possible investors Believes Coyotes are not going anywhere4 commentsby Jim Gintonio - Jan. 20, 2009 08:04 PM The Arizona Republic Wayne Gretzky said that he has had introductory conversations with some potential Coyotes investors. When asked if there was serious money involved, he responded, "Absolutely . . . I believe it's gonna be fine." The Coyotes managing partner and coach said that like with any business in corporate America, times are tough. He said, however, that it is not a players' problem or concern, and it is not a topic in the locker room. He called owner Jerry Moyes "a wonderful man" who is looking for partnerships and investors while staying in constant contact with the city of Glendale. "Everybody wants the team to stay here," Gretzky said. "Mr. Moyes does, the city of Glendale does, and my personal opinion is it's gonna get rectified. It's just gonna take some time. "The good news about it is the people who do want to get involved with this group now at least say it's a great scenario because it's a great building, the hockey team itself is gonna be strong for a long time, and the city is a great city to be part of, so at the end of the day there's nothing for the players to be concerned about." He said announced attendances of almost 15,000 is a real positive with the economic downturn. What he does not like is people wondering if hockey is a viable sport in the Valley. "I get upset with people who say, 'Well, can Phoenix handle a hockey team?' Yeah they can handle a hockey team. It's a good sports city. Our team has been horrible for three or four years, and we're winning more now, the people are showing up more now, and people are excited about it, and they have something to come and cheer about. "If you're asking me my gut feeling, is this team gonna be here in September? Absolutely. The same as anything else, I can't predict what the car industry is gonna do, what your business is gonna do. I just don't have those predictions, but I feel good about the scenario, and I believe it's all gonna work out." www.azcentral.com/sports/coyotes/articles/2009/01/20/20090120yotesider0121.html
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Post by NewJets on Jan 21, 2009 9:34:45 GMT -5
Gretzky is a delusional c*unt!
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Post by buffalobrian on Jan 21, 2009 10:00:33 GMT -5
You guys crack me up, what do you expect Gretzky to say? He's part of the ownership group. When have you ever heard the owner of a business say, it's never going to work here, we're just biding time.
Seriously, the word is they are trying to get their lease renegotiated, they'd have no chance of renegoiating the lease if the city knew they were going to leave.
Honestly, I think some people on this board are delusional if they don't think Gretzky will tow the company line.
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Post by NewJets on Jan 21, 2009 10:20:36 GMT -5
You guys crack me up, what do you expect Gretzky to say? He's part of the ownership group. When have you ever heard the owner of a business say, it's never going to work here, we're just biding time. Seriously, the word is they are trying to get their lease renegotiated, they'd have no chance of renegoiating the lease if the city knew they were going to leave. Honestly, I think some people on this board are delusional if they don't think Gretzky will tow the company line. Who said that?? Who said that Gretzky won't 'tow the company line' as you say? We just think he's been in 'la-la-la' land far too long. He still thinks Phoenix is a great hockey city. Do you agree with that?? I say THAT is delusional. Oh and Gretz is still a c*unt!
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Post by dbp1990 on Jan 21, 2009 10:31:42 GMT -5
Their DONE!
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Post by Charon2000 on Jan 21, 2009 12:09:23 GMT -5
That arena was built in the wrong place. It's too far away from their "fanbase." I drove to a game from Gilbert a few weeks ago (which is on the opposite side of Phoenix from the arena) and it took an hour. Not a big deal to do every so often but it's something that keeps my family who lives there from going on a regular basis.
Yes they fill the football stadium which is right next to the arena, but that's 9 or 10 times a year, once every two weeks or so, as opposed to up to a few times a week. And we're talking NFL vs NHL.
When the arena was built there was supposed to be all sorts of development in Glendale and it all fell through. It's a lousy situation in a bad economy, with a team that has a track record of routinely losing tens of millions annually. I can't see any investors jumping on board, in my opinion.
I think they're done, too.
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Post by buffalobrian on Jan 21, 2009 14:00:03 GMT -5
You guys crack me up, what do you expect Gretzky to say? He's part of the ownership group. When have you ever heard the owner of a business say, it's never going to work here, we're just biding time. Seriously, the word is they are trying to get their lease renegotiated, they'd have no chance of renegoiating the lease if the city knew they were going to leave. Honestly, I think some people on this board are delusional if they don't think Gretzky will tow the company line. Who said that?? Who said that Gretzky won't 'tow the company line' as you say? We just think he's been in 'la-la-la' land far too long. He still thinks Phoenix is a great hockey city. Do you agree with that?? I say THAT is delusional. Oh and Gretz is still a c*unt! I never said Phoenix was a great hockey city, nor did I imply that. What do you think he's going to say, "hockey doesn't work in Phoenix" and drive away what little fan support the team has? Not to mention, that would give them no leverage at the bargaining table with the City of Glendale. I guess I just don't understand why you think he has any obligation to come out and really tell the story the way it's written in the financial statements. If the league wanted the fans to really know how "badly" all of these teams are doing they'd release the audited financial statements to the fans for their viewing pleasure.
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Post by NewJets on Jan 21, 2009 14:13:27 GMT -5
Who said that?? Who said that Gretzky won't 'tow the company line' as you say? We just think he's been in 'la-la-la' land far too long. He still thinks Phoenix is a great hockey city. Do you agree with that?? I say THAT is delusional. Oh and Gretz is still a c*unt! I never said Phoenix was a great hockey city, nor did I imply that. What do you think he's going to say, "hockey doesn't work in Phoenix" and drive away what little fan support the team has? Not to mention, that would give them no leverage at the bargaining table with the City of Glendale. I guess I just don't understand why you think he has any obligation to come out and really tell the story the way it's written in the financial statements. If the league wanted the fans to really know how "badly" all of these teams are doing they'd release the audited financial statements to the fans for their viewing pleasure. It does nothing to the franchise to 'sugar coat' things. The writing is already on the wall for the Yotes. 45 million lost this past year. No investor is going to want to jump in on this one. Gretzky doesn't have to say it bluntly -- but as you can see there is a lot of 'flip-flop' with Phoenix mgmt these days. They want to assure their "fans" that everything is alright because if they actually knew the team wasn't going to last beyond April, then they would most likely stop going to games altogether. Its called 'damage control'. Last week, Gretz said that the Coyotes were indeed in trouble, financially, yet this week he's saying that things will be 'okay' and believes the franchise will survive. So which one is it?
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Post by jhendrix70 on Jan 21, 2009 14:27:55 GMT -5
ChicagoBrian..you need to open your point of view up a little bit! Gretzky ISN'T doing the Coyotes any favours by saying everything is fine........infact he's doing just the opposite. He should be pleading with fans to come to games, etc because the team needs their support. Instead; he's saying: Ahh, someone will step up and buy us and keep us hear long term because we do just fine with the 6000 paying fans per game. No need to worry.....
Gretzky sold out Canada a long time ago and bashing Winnipeg while saying Phoenix is a hockey city certainly doesn't help his credibility. I once respected the guy but, seems everyday have a new reason to hate him!
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Post by jhendrix70 on Jan 21, 2009 14:56:28 GMT -5
Arizona folks claim Coyotes' demise all liesBy: Randy Turner OPEN LETTER TO PHOENIX: First of all, congratulations on that Super Bowl business. And take good care of our boy, Steve Nash. But we've got to set a few things straight for you Coyotes fans. We know that the local media there is doing the "Hear No Evil, See No Evil" thing lately when it's come to their NHL team. Not much in the papers about how the team could lose up to $45 million this year and has essentially given itself into hands of lenders.Oh, there was a story recently in the Arizona Republic that began, "Some media types in Canada -- many who would probably like to see Original Six stay put and every other franchise move north of the border -- have been working themselves into a frenzy about the Coyotes. They seem convinced that the Coyotes are about to pull up stakes any day now." The article was headlined, "Coyotes CEO chairman sets record straight" and quotes Coyotes boss Jeff Shumway saying, "Hockey will be a great sport in Phoenix and Glendale, probably way beyond my years."While admitting that the Coyotes have suffered "significant financial losses, and that needs to be fixed," Shumway dismissed the "rumours" about the Coyotes not meeting payroll and being under league supervision. "A lot of this is coming from out of the state, out of the country," he said. "Rumours are rumours." Anyway, we just wanted to set the record straight, too. By the way, is it Phoenixians? Phoenixites? Whatever, we just wanted to let you Arizona hockey fans know that whatever is happening to our... excuse me, your team has nothing to do with us in Winnipeg. We understand there are some Coyotes fans who think these media reports are some sort of conspiracy being dreamed up by bitter, twisted Jets fans. "Those stupid Canadian journalists from podunk towns need to knock this crap off," said one thread posted with the handle, LetsGoCoyotes. "Winnipeg is NOT going to get another NHL franchise. Get over it." Look, this stuff isn't even coming from Winnipeg. But you're right. There is somewhat of a conspiracy at play, but look no further than Toronto. That's where the leaks have been reported, and that's also -- coincidence? -- the home of a Leafs board of governors that writes a cheque of over $10 million every year to subsidize perennial money losers such as the Coyotes.It's not about a bunch of shivering Jets mourners dredging up the past and pining for the NHL's return. There's some of that, of course, but let's just say we're much more realistic about the NHL in these parts than probably anywhere on the planet. For the record, if the Coyotes were for sale, nobody in Winnipeg would buy them. That team is so mired in debt and a long-term arena lease that it would take a martini bar full of lawyers and accountants to sort out that mess. We're not sure if it's worth all that trouble to see Joakim Lindstrom take a regular shift.Besides, we're not sure we could afford it, either. No, a team in Winnipeg probably wouldn't lose $45 million unless the ice was cut out of diamonds but there's no one around here that can write a blank cheque. That guy is named Jim Balsillie and he lives in Windsor, Ont., which is waaaaay east of here, just so you guys know. Look, we know it hasn't been easy. I mean, you've had to pay to watch the Coyotes for, like, 12 years now. We feel your pain, dudes. That could have been us. But, honest, we're not revelling in your misery. No, it doesn't exactly break our hearts -- after all, we didn't see any tears in Phoenix when Keith Tkachuk showed up -- but we're not dancing around our ice fishing holes, either. Because it's not like you guys are stuck with the only sinking NHL ship. There's a whole armada out there now. So, really, good luck with our... sorry again, that team. It's not your fault. You tried. It's just that nobody ever stopped to think that, "Hmmm. Maybe a hockey team in a desert might not be the greatest idea ever." Maybe not at first, but sometime after the $100-million loss mark. We're just sayin'.Go Cardinals. Randy Turner Podunk, Canada www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/arizona_folks__claim_coyotes_demise_all_lies37989699.html
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Post by subwayscoundrel on Jan 21, 2009 15:17:37 GMT -5
That arena was built in the wrong place. It's too far away from their "fanbase." I drove to a game from Gilbert a few weeks ago (which is on the opposite side of Phoenix from the arena) and it took an hour. Not a big deal to do every so often but it's something that keeps my family who lives there from going on a regular basis. Yes they fill the football stadium which is right next to the arena, but that's 9 or 10 times a year, once every two weeks or so, as opposed to up to a few times a week. And we're talking NFL vs NHL. When the arena was built there was supposed to be all sorts of development in Glendale and it all fell through. It's a lousy situation in a bad economy, with a team that has a track record of routinely losing tens of millions annually. I can't see any investors jumping on board, in my opinion. I think they're done, too. Could not agree more. If the arena had been built in Scottsdale, the Yotes conversation today would be about thier young players and not their $$ position.
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Post by wagner3 on Jan 23, 2009 22:47:29 GMT -5
Coyotes CEO Shumway steps down 20 commentsby Craig Harris - Jan. 23, 2009 07:40 PM The Arizona Republic Phoenix Coyotes owner Jerry Moyes, looking to sell his majority stake in the financially troubled hockey franchise, ousted his hand-picked chief executive and took over as CEO and chairman. Moyes told The Arizona Republic the resignation of Jeff Shumwaymakes it easier for him to bring in new investors and get the National Hockey League's approval for new ownership. "I would be willing to sell a majority stake and stay on as a minority shareholder," said Moyes, who became an investor in 2001 and is credited with keeping the team in the Valley. "This is going to allow me to be more involved in the team, and I'll be looking for investors to come in and help with the team." Shumway, whom Moyes appointed April 13, 2006, could not be reached. He will continue working in other areas for Moyes, who has trucking, aviation and real estate interests. During Shumway's short tenure with the Coyotes the team improved its business operations and is competing for the post season, something that hasn't occurred since 2002. Moyes said the team has started the process of finding new investors, but he said the Coyotes would remain at Jobing.com Arena in Glendale. There has been media speculation that a Canadian buyer may want to purchase the franchise and move it, but Moyes said it's too costly to break a 30-year-lease with Glendale. The city, which declined comment on the change, said it would cost roughly $750 million if the team moved. Glendale currently is in negotiations with the Coyotes, which wants more money from games and stadium events. "The team is going to stay in Glendale," Moyes said. "That is a given, and there's no way it can move out. We have to work with the city and on our expenses and have a winning team in order to have more sponsorships and ticket sales." Moyes, however, acknowledged the lease could be broken if the club filed for bankruptcy protection. But he said that would be an "ugly situation" not worth pursuing. There also has been precedent in other cities, most recently Seattle, where professional sports teams have broken leases early. By becoming the team's governor, Moyes has the designation from the National Hockey League as the one in charge of day-to-day operations. He said he owns nearly 100 percent of the team. Frank Brown, a NHL spokesman, said it's not uncommon for an owner to be a team's governor and the league would do what it could to keep professional hockey in the Valley. He also said any change in majority ownership would take league approval. Brown also said the NHL would assist the Coyotes in any way they deem necessary. Moyes is seeking financial assistance after investing or obtaining loans of more than $200 million to keep the team afloat during the nearly past eight years. The team, which has not been profitable since Moyes became an owner, moved to the Valley from Winnipeg in 1996. Moyes, whose Phoenix-based Swift Transportation trucking company has been hit by the global recession, said he was selling a portion of his stake to get some return on his investment. General Manager Don Maloney, who is charge of the players, and President Doug Moss, who oversees business operations, will report directly to Moyes. www.azcentral.com/sports/coyotes/articles/2009/01/23/20090123biz-coyotesceoquits0124.html
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Post by scottie65 on Jan 23, 2009 23:34:06 GMT -5
This thing is going sideways really fast. These points leapt off the screen for me:
Moyes, however, acknowledged the lease could be broken if the club filed for bankruptcy protection. But he said that would be an "ugly situation" not worth pursuing.
This is code for an "exit strategy" to advise all that this is what's coming so no one will be surprised. The term "shelling the beach" comes to mind here. After all, its not an actual liquidation of the assets at this point, its more of Chapter 11 to enable a renegotiation of commitments.
There also has been precedent in other cities, most recently Seattle, where professional sports teams have broken leases early.
This is the precedent that will be used publicly to support the above.
Frank Brown, a NHL spokesman, said it's not uncommon for an owner to be a team's governor and the league would do what it could to keep professional hockey in the Valley. He also said any change in majority ownership would take league approval.
In order to appease everyone with a financial stake in this, the NHL should've said "The league will do everything in its powers to ensure the Coyotes are playing hockey in Phoenix for many many years to come" The tepid response to say it would do "what it could" speaks volumes to me as I always look for the spin or the unspoken word - and low and behold the NHL said it themselves. In my opinion they're resigned themselves to the fact that Phoenix is moving.
I envision a "Swift" move out of Phoenix at the end of the season.
Would be classy of Moyes to back the Swift Trucks up to the back doors of Jobing Arena and haul all that gear back to Winnipeg!
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Post by Brent on Jan 24, 2009 12:16:25 GMT -5
Got an email yesterday from my "buddy" Jake Carlson who does PR for the Coyotes. Normally he sends out mass emails to "UndislosedRecipients" about the latest promotions (read: fire sales). Yesterday's email was of a different tone: addressed only to me, and, instead of offering $10 rush seats, the email was asking for one thing: Please give us your money you hockey-loving Canadian! How else am I supposed to take this message, titled "Coyotes Canadian Specials." Instead of shooting for bargain basement prices that normally accompany these emails, I was offered a couple of package deals for a luxury suite or club seating (first 5 rows behind the player benches) for the Feb. tilts vs Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary. Suite Nights: Dinner every night, post-game player meet and greet each night, cocktail reception the night between the Nucks and Oilers game. 12 people: $6400 18 people: $9600 Club seating: Same as above, but only one night of player meet and greet. $450 per person, 6 person min. SIX PERSON MINIMUM??? It's bad enough that 5 measly rows behind the player benches couldn't be sold as season tickets. It doesn't seem as though they ever planned to sell those seats on a game by game basis, since each seat is supposed to come with a personalized name plate and seat cover. ( coyotes.nhl.com/tickets/toyota_club.htm) Maybe that's why we don't have an NHL team... too many club seats, all of which go to season ticket holders. Oh sorry, I forgot... that's for the AHL Moose. Naturally if the NHL were to return, these corporate lackies would turn tail and run. I mean, who in their right minds would want to be seen form a business association with HOCKEY in a place like Winnipeg? That's just doesn't make business sense...
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Post by lilratzy on Jan 25, 2009 11:23:57 GMT -5
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Post by bettmanblows on Jan 30, 2009 11:08:16 GMT -5
I'm Not really a big N.F.L. fan..I'm a hockey guy to the bone. However on superbowl Sunday I will be cheering for the Arizona Cardinals with everything I have. The more media attention the Cardinals get, the more season tickets they get, the more freaking T-shirts that some in Phoneix buys instead of the coyotees is all gravy. I'm currious to see how many people go to the Sabers/Coyotees game the night before the superbowl. GO Cardinals!!!
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