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Post by Trent Steele on Mar 17, 2005 12:22:42 GMT -5
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Post by joelzillmanwpg on Mar 17, 2005 23:13:22 GMT -5
That would be awesome. Way too many drunks and panhandlers keep people from coming downtown. They should really arrest panhandlers, since everyone knows that they do it to feed their addictions. As for the Squeege-type panhandlers, they should be forced back to their Linden Woods homes..
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Post by MOC on Mar 18, 2005 11:38:00 GMT -5
Way too many drunks and panhandlers keep people from coming downtown. Personally, as someone who is downtown pretty much every day, I have never been harrassed or made to feel uncomfortable by panhandlers or drunks. People in the suburbs who use it as the reason they don't come downtown really need to get out more and experience life from outside their 3-car-garage home and their SUV. Life isn't always perfect: deal with it, don't hide from it. Not every panhandler does it to feed an addiction.
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Post by Yar on Mar 18, 2005 11:48:32 GMT -5
Not every panhandler does it to feed an addiction. a lot of them do. a guy i know was downtown a little while ago and this panhandler was asking him if he could give him some change for some breakfast. he was very hungry and he had no money to buy food. the guy offered to take the panhandler to sals for breakfast and he just turned around and asked someone else for change. a lot of the panhandlers are like this. of course there are some that actually use the money for beds, clothes, food, etc. i would be more inclined to give someone who isnt stumbling or reeking of booze some change
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Post by MOC on Mar 18, 2005 11:55:35 GMT -5
You can pick up Blue Keys at several downtown businesses that enable street people to get a meal, a shower and a bed at one of several missions. Give those instead of money, if you are unsure as to their intentions.
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Post by Yar on Mar 18, 2005 12:17:12 GMT -5
thats a good idea. i never thought of that. instead of giving panhandlers any money, they get a blue key. if they truely want a bed, shower and some food, then they will be very grateful. they need to market that idea way more. i totally forgot about that.
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Post by MOC on Mar 18, 2005 12:19:21 GMT -5
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Post by Yar on Mar 18, 2005 12:25:28 GMT -5
thanks MOC, im gonna try to get some of those keys and keep one on me at all times in case someone asks for change. this is a great program!!
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Post by joelzillmanwpg on Mar 18, 2005 21:52:52 GMT -5
Personally, as someone who is downtown pretty much every day, I have never been harrassed or made to feel uncomfortable by panhandlers or drunks. People in the suburbs who use it as the reason they don't come downtown really need to get out more and experience life from outside their 3-car-garage home and their SUV. Life isn't always perfect: deal with it, don't hide from it. Actually, I lived in West Broadway for 3 years. I went downtown almost everyday, and I was harassed on at least 7 or 8 occasions. Im 6-2/195, so I don't take them too seriously, but imagine what it would be like for a 115 pound 20-something woman. Secondly, I don't buy your story of "never being harassed by panhandlers" if you have been downtown over 12 times in your life, unless you stick to the Forks. 90% do though, so it is pretty much every panhandler. Don't you read those ads on bus shacks??
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Post by joelzillmanwpg on Mar 18, 2005 21:57:58 GMT -5
a lot of them do. a guy i know was downtown a little while ago and this panhandler was asking him if he could give him some change for some breakfast. he was very hungry and he had no money to buy food. the guy offered to take the panhandler to sals for breakfast and he just turned around and asked someone else for change. That's happened to me twice. A couple of years back, this lady was crying, and asing for change for food at the bus depot near the Bay. I reached into my backpack, pulled out an Orange, a Turkey sandwich, that I was saving for lunch, and a bottle of juice and gave it to her. to my dismay, she threw the Orange at me, and said "I want some f--king money you idiot." I had my cell on me, and I was so pissed off after trying to do a good deed that I phoned the cops after she started kicking the shack. The cops came just as I went to take a seat, and coincidentally, just as she was yelling at some other innocent bystander.. It felt good getting an animal like that off the street.
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Post by joelzillmanwpg on Mar 18, 2005 22:00:29 GMT -5
thats a good idea. i never thought of that. instead of giving panhandlers any money, they get a blue key. if they truely want a bed, shower and some food, then they will be very grateful. they need to market that idea way more. i totally forgot about that. On the flipside, some may tell you to go to hell. Sometimes, it's just best to ignore these people and walk away...
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Post by MOC on Mar 20, 2005 16:30:12 GMT -5
Actually, I lived in West Broadway for 3 years. I went downtown almost everyday, and I was harassed on at least 7 or 8 occasions. 7 or 8 times in 3 years is not much at all.
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Post by razorsedge on Mar 30, 2005 11:24:24 GMT -5
As for the Squeege-type panhandlers, they should be forced back to their Linden Woods homes.. hahha....so damn true A few years ago when i lived in winnipeg......i live on westminster just off of maryland.....and i would venture into downtown once in a while.....i hated it......i was a chain smoker at the time........and i couldn't even smoke....because every second person (which were panhandlers at the time) would ask me for a cigerette..... i walked around downtown last year.....and i have noticed a big change for the better.....it was great to see that....
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Post by RemyShanx on Apr 6, 2005 10:32:15 GMT -5
getting drunks off the streets??? But, half the time I'm one of those drunks heh jk.. well not really... well... lets not go there I was waitin for the bus the other day, an older native man (was homeless)... soo skinny and all he was wanting was a smoke... he looked as he hasnt eatin in days... but he despritely needed that smoke. Most poeple ignored him, and he would tell them to "go to f'n hell" or if they said no he'd call them a liar and to go to hell... Where do you pick up those "Blue Keys?" I'm gonna have to grab a few...
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Post by MOC on Apr 6, 2005 11:03:20 GMT -5
Various downtown businesses have them, I believe. Probably the Portage Place customer service booth would have them. If nothing else, the Downtown BIZ offices at 426 Portage should have some.
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Post by jamiebez on Apr 6, 2005 13:13:02 GMT -5
I was waitin for the bus the other day, an older native man (was homeless)... soo skinny and all he was wanting was a smoke... he looked as he hasnt eatin in days... but he despritely needed that smoke. Most poeple ignored him, and he would tell them to "go to f'n hell" or if they said no he'd call them a liar and to go to hell... Nothing against panhandlers, but sh!t like that has to stop. You want to bum a smoke, that's cool, but don't swear at people. Every big city has panhandlers, but the real problem is the guys that curse at you and threaten you and stuff. That's the problem in Winnipeg.
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Post by joelzillmanwpg on Apr 6, 2005 21:34:11 GMT -5
Where do you pick up those "Blue Keys?" I'm gonna have to grab a few... Don't bother. These people needs drugs. Unless the blue key opens to a locker full of hard liquor or crack, they will just chuck them away...
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Post by joelzillmanwpg on Apr 6, 2005 21:35:44 GMT -5
Nothing against panhandlers, but sh!t like that has to stop. You want to bum a smoke, that's cool, but don't swear at people. Every big city has panhandlers, but the real problem is the guys that curse at you and threaten you and stuff. That's the problem in Winnipeg. It's way better in Edmonton. I've been downtown several dozen times, saw maybe one panhandler with a sign. They are much more strict out here. Coincidentially, the downtown is full of life.
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Post by MOC on Apr 7, 2005 11:37:36 GMT -5
Coincidentially, the downtown is full of life. Yeah, it must be coincidental. Experiencing European cities is a must before deducing that panhandlers downtown = an unattractive downtown. European cities are full of panhandlers, beggers, people with mental and substance abuse problems, yet they're teeming with life. How is that? Yesterday's Free Press had an excellent piece on downtown and panhandlers: Downtown streets need people Dallas Hansen Wed Apr 6 2005 EVERYBODY, it seems, working or living in downtown Winnipeg can tell at least one appalling tale of being accosted for money. Often the beggar is described as having breath that could remove nail polish and a manner more suited to mugging than begging. But Stefano Grande and Gord Mackintosh have teamed up to provide a putative solution.
Mr. Grande, director of the Downtown Business Improvement Zone, and Mr. Mackintosh, our provincial justice minister, have for this important issue wangled funding for a "special" constabulary and a special prosecutor to take care of "panhandling, public intoxication, graffiti and other minor crimes" -- though to my knowledge poverty and begging aren't yet criminal offenses.
Expanding our already overburdened justice system to accommodate sidewalk nuisances is both frightening and absurd. Panhandlers cannot pay fines; jailing them is an ineffective squandering of public resources. And anointing members of Mr. Grande's Downtown Watch -- who in many circles have already earned a reputation for arbitrary bullying -- with the legitimacy to apprehend citizens for petty offenses sets a precedent that's simply scarier than any drunk, staggering beggar could ever be.
Mr. Mackntosh has described this as a "made-in-Winnipeg approach," presumably because no other Canadian city -- not even in Alberta! -- could be quite so reactionary. But other cities have panhandlers too. Some estimate the number of Winnipeg's persistently problematic panhandlers at 50. Other cities have it much worse. In San Francisco, whose population of just over 700,000 is roughly the same as Winnipeg's, the number of homeless is estimated at over 10,000. Most of them are panhandlers, and many are undoubtedly more persistent than authorities would like. But the streets seem safe, and most San Franciscans have no qualms about strolling downtown.
Of course San Francisco's slightly larger population fits into an area about a quarter the size of Winnipeg's. That makes for much more density, and much busier streets. Busy streets, as they say, are safe streets. When you're surrounded by dozens of onlookers, the underclass no longer seems so intimidating.
On Winnipeg's comparatively desolate streets, even a single panhandler on an otherwise empty sidewalk can be sufficient to scare suburbanites back to the mall. Winnipeg's middle class, having long abandoned the inner city, oughtn't be so surprised at who has filled the void. If Messrs. Grande and Mackintosh truly want to reclaim our downtown for the consumer, the only permanent solution can come not from prosecuting the underclass, but outnumbering them.
Just as Winnipeg is integral to the economic health of the province, so is our downtown integral to our city's economy. Never mind the tremendous social problems downtown, a more pressing issue for our provincial government is our city's zero-per cent population growth. While once lesser cities such as Edmonton and Calgary are creeping toward a population that is twice that of Winnipeg's, our government stays silent on the subject of stagnation.
In the absence of petroleum wealth, Manitoba must induce a more organic approach to economic development, one that starts with Winnipeg's city centre. Between Portage and Broadway, downtown Winnipeg is filled with no less than 27 surface-level parking lots, making for gaps in street continuity that not only preclude their having any individual identity but ensure that they will never be well-travelled by foot. Such a sparse city centre ought to be intolerable.
Approach A more effective approach, then, would be building density by legislating surface-level parking out of existence, and the erection -- through private or even public development -- of mixed residential-commercial buildings: sidewalk storefronts at bottom, with apartment dwellings up above. This provides a plethora of reasons for people to be on the block while those living up above keep aware of what goes on below. The safest neighborhoods are self-regulating.
Young, single out-of-towners are likelier to live in the inner city than anywhere else, particularly if they are not motorists. A busy downtown attracts yet more people, creating the proverbial snowball effect. As people seek to be nearer downtown, the city's population can grow, without the accompanying problems of urban sprawl.
Community prosecutions, professional busybodies, and the Intoxicated Persons Detention Act will not keep the poor from roaming the sidewalks. Indeed, nothing can, save for an all-out police state, and a downtown without room for beggars is a place I wouldn't want to visit.
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Post by joelzillmanwpg on Apr 7, 2005 19:26:19 GMT -5
Yeah, it must be coincidental. Experiencing European cities is a must before deducing that panhandlers downtown = an unattractive downtown. European cities are full of panhandlers, beggers, people with mental and substance abuse problems, yet they're teeming with life. How is that? Terrible comparison. You cannot compare cities like London, Paris, Berlin, etc. to Winnipeg. Make a comparison to a similiar sized city in North America.. Nope. However, harassing and imtimidating pedestrians for money IS.... I commend Winnipeg for it's sucessful Downtown Watch program. I think the editor has the story wrong. Usually it's the PANHANDLERS that yell obsenities and threaten Downtown watch members when they approach them. I have seen this firsthand... 50 is a very conservative estimate. Secondly, Edmonton, Calgary, and arguably Vancouver have less panhandlers than Winnipeg. Bad example. For one, the San Francisco metro area has over 6,000,000 people. Secondly, SF is a tourist area. Did the editor ever visit Oakland, notorious for it's gangs, violence, drugs, poverty, etc, which is across the bridge from SF? I didn't think so. It's like saying Vancouver has no problems with panhandling after looking only at a few Downtown streets, and not the infamous Hastings strip... Or back to the suburbs....Nobody wants to venture into Portage Place, unless it has drasticly change since summer 2004... The void has been filled by a lot of 20 somethings in post secondary education, or young couples buying their first homes in many cases. Even they choose places like Polo Park to shop. WTF? Did the editor bother to look at the facts? Manitoba's population has grown in record numbers in 2004, and is increasing every year since 1999. maybe the editor is oblivious to the word "high oil prices", which will make Alberta a filty rich province for years to come. It has nothing to do with "inner city problems". I'm sure that will help us catch up to the Alberta cities Great idea. One that has only been suggested 1,000 times. A good start is the Waterfront Drive condos... Again, the editor makes himself out to look like an idiot for not checking the fact that Winnipeg's population is growing at it's fastest rate in 20 years. [/i][/quote] Then live somewhere else...
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