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Post by Ducky on Dec 25, 2004 2:29:04 GMT -5
City at a crossroads Waverley West: Vibrant new suburb or urban sprawl? Winnipeg Free Press Sunday December 19 2004 By Mary Agnes Welch
WAVERLEY West, a vast, vacant tract of land out near the dump, is becoming the subject of what may be the most important debate about Winnipeg's future since Unicity in 1971. Farther from Portage and Main than East St. Paul, Waverly West is where the city is proposing to build a huge housing development that could become home to as many as 40,000 people by the time it is completed. But the debate raging behind the closed doors of city hall has so far barely registered with most Winnipeggers. Only a few activists and urban planners are raising a fuss. "I see Winnipeg as a city on the cusp," said Lisa Hardess, a young community planner who works at a local environmental agency. "It's either going to do really well or it's going to make all the wrong decisions." Waverley West will be the biggest suburb Winnipeg has ever seen. It is being planned during an unexpected housing and building boom in the city that is gobbling up more lots than the city has available. The provincial government and Ladco Company Ltd., one of the city's biggest development firms, own most of the 3,000-acre tract of land located just south of Bishop Grandin Boulevard. Over the next 20 to 30 years, more than 10,000 new homes, apartments and condos could be built, attracting roughly the same population as Brandon. That could bolster the local economy, stave off a housing shortage and add another $70 million to city hall coffers over the next 60 years, say proponents. But critics of Waverley West, including Hardess, say the city should try to corral some of that healthy growth downtown instead of letting market forces create more urban sprawl. That is the crux of the debate that will be played out Jan. 4 at a critical public hearing at city hall, where councillors will be asked to decide whether to open up the Waverley West lands for development. The province has the final say. For Ladco, the city and the province, the question is simply whether there is a shortage of building lots in the city. Armed with studies and coloured maps, Ladco and the province have been making the case that the city will run out of serviced lots in about two years, and even more quickly in the booming southwestern quadrant. If that happens, they say, the shortage will cause house prices to skyrocket and people will sprawl into bedroom communities in East St. Paul and Headingley. Newcomers will quit relocating to Winnipeg because they can't find a place to live, a $1.2-billion local building industry will shrink and the city's economy will stall. "We risk stagnation," said Garth Steek, president of the Manitoba Home Builders Association. "If the city does not proceed on Waverley West in a timely fashion, it sends out the message that the city's environment is stifling." But a handful of environmentalists, urban planners and local activists say Waverley West is about much more than a lot shortage. It's about what kind of city Winnipeg wants to be. Hardness -- along with the Provincial Council of Women, the Green Party and some downtown advocates -- say great cities like Paris and even Toronto are great because they have vibrant centres where young, creative people clamour to live, where cafés, shops, community centres and parks abound and where the best parts of city life are collected. Dense, dynamic neighbourhoods like Osborne Village make environmental and economic sense because they are cheaper for the government to service and because the people who live there tend to drive less or take the bus. That's the kind of Winnipeg that city hall should be encouraging, not more sprawl, say some Winnipeggers. "For all this talk about being flexible in our urban planning and forming partnerships, no one's really talking about sustainability and sprawl," said Elizabeth Fleming, a member of the Provincial Council of Women and an outspoken critic of the development. The province promises that Waverley West won't be just another cookie-cutter suburb. Instead, it will be economically and environmentally sustainable. Homes will be heated with energy-efficient geothermal heat, parks and transit services will be more accessible and a variety of housing options and prices will mimic some of the city's denser, more diverse character neighbourhoods. And Waverley West will be built in such a way that the city isn't stuck with a huge infrastructure repair bill 20 or 30 years down the road. The province's housing minister says Waverley West will not divert people and resources from struggling neighbourhoods, where programs to build affordable housing and attract commercial development are already having an effect. "We're not talking about either-or," said Christine Melnick. "We're talking about a well-rounded housing plan to help Winnipeggers meet their needs."
maryagnes.welch@freepress.mb.ca
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Post by Ducky on Jan 5, 2005 10:34:14 GMT -5
Wed, January 5, 2005
Waverley West deemed crucial
Will save city: lobbyists
By ROSS ROMANIUK, CITY HALL REPORTER
Build up southwest Winnipeg or watch the city's growth and potential drop dramatically. That dire message was sent to councillors yesterday by housing and construction lobbyists who insist the proposed Waverley West subdivision is the city's salvation from a sharp drop in promising population gains and from skyrocketing house prices and lost jobs.
WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO
"Winnipeg faces the worst possible scenario -- we stand to lose people and taxes but still have to provide infrastructure and services," Alan Borger, president of home building firm Ladco Co. Ltd., told Mayor Sam Katz and his six-member cabinet.
During a public hearing stretching more than six hours, Ladco joined the Winnipeg Real Estate Board, Manitoba Home Builders Association and other groups in stressing the city is on the cusp of significant growth and prosperity -- but the massive Waverley West must be developed to reach that potential.
Should the development proceed by 2006 on what's now an empty 1,200-hectare property, Borger said the local home-building industry will see "one mega-project every year" for three decades with a total of $2 billion in real estate, more than $300 million in heavy construction work and at least $50 million in annual property tax generated for city hall.
Before a City Hall gallery packed with scores of spectators, Katz's committee weighed an approval of a change to Plan Winnipeg, the city's long-range planning initiative, to allow Waverley West to proceed with more than 10,000 single- and multi-family residences.
The suburb would take shape over the next two to three decades and eventually become home to about 40,000 people south of Bishop Grandin Boulevard and west of Waverley Street.
A decision, which would be followed by council votes and consideration by the Manitoba government, could be made today after opponents get a chance to argue against the project.
About half the approximately 70 delegates to speak to EPC are against the development which, they warn, will lead to urban sprawl and hundreds of millions of dollars spent for unnecessary infrastructure -- costs they say Winnipeg can't afford.
Katz and his cabinet refused to comment on the merits of the arguments until the hearing is over.
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Post by Ducky on Jan 5, 2005 12:55:52 GMT -5
Waverley West debate continues
WINNIPEG - The proposed Waverley West subdivision in Winnipeg is dominating discussion at City Hall this week.
Proponents of the development proposal say it would ease the demands of a land and housing shortage – but others wonder if the city's infrastructure can sustain such a massive subdivision.
Ladco Developments, the developer behind the proposal, made its case for the development at City Hall on Tuesday.
Ladco wants to build as many as 13,000 homes over 30 years on the parcel of land in southwest Winnipeg, which is now zoned as rural land. The development, which would have a population about equal to the city of Brandon, would be one of the largest suburbs Winnipeg has seen.
Before the development can go ahead, it would require a change to Plan Winnipeg, the city's master planning document. The meetings this week are part of the executive policy committee's consideration of the proposed amendment.
Ladco president Alan Borger told the meeting the city needs the new subdivision because it's running out of building lots in the desirable south end of the city, where families are demanding new suburban-style homes.
"I don't think we've ever had no lots in a quadrant of the city before, and in the whole south half of the city, we have lots for approximately another two years," Borger said. "Waverley West is just part of the solution."
Borger says if the project is approved, the first lots could be available by the end of 2006. Without Waverley West, he warns Winnipeg could be faced with skyrocketing prices for building lots, and the city may lose people to surrounding municipalities or even other cities.
"We will encourage faster growth into the bedroom communities; we'll frustrate our attempts to rejuvenate the downtown by driving up the price of land," he warns.
• Development faces opposition •
Charleswood-Tuxedo Coun. Bill Clement was one of the most vocal councillors to challenge the proposal at Tuesday's meeting. He questioned many aspects of the project, including its design.
"I'm really concerned, though, particularly after the past three days with the snowfall we've had, when I hear rumours of developing some type of new type of thinking with back lanes and this type of stuff," he said.
"If you saw the back lanes I've been driving around in the past few days, you would not want to build any more of them, and I wouldn't want to build any more than I have to."
Others wonder if creating a huge subdivision in the south end could stretch key resources already in short supply.
"Pembina Highway is going to be disastrous," predicts Jenny Gerbasi, councillor for Fort Rouge-East Fort Garry. "It can't be widened, and without the transit corridor it's a disaster. And with this development without a transit corridor, it's doing to be difficult."
The hearings continue Wednesday, with those against the project expected to make presentations. In total, two further days of hearings are expected.
Any amendment to Plan Winnipeg would also require the approval of city council and the Intergovernmental Affairs ministry of the province of Manitoba.
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Dave74
Veteran Member
Posts: 239
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Post by Dave74 on Jan 6, 2005 20:55:15 GMT -5
So what do you guys think? A yes or a no on Waverly West.
BTW, any word on what's the plan for the large open space just north of Regent behind K.P, etc???
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Post by KP on Jan 6, 2005 21:41:13 GMT -5
That empty space is for future mall and parking expansion of KP
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Post by Ducky on Jan 6, 2005 22:51:09 GMT -5
So what do you guys think? A yes or a no on Waverly West. i hope they do work on housing near downtown. as they might as well rework on the infrustucture there anyways.
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Post by The Unknown Poster on Jan 10, 2005 16:11:30 GMT -5
I have no problem with downtown housing, but morons like Glen Murray were Go Jets Go-backwards in their belief that you should force people to live there.
If the only draw back to Waverly West is that people may choose to live there rather then downtown, then doesnt that say alot about downtown. Like, for instance, no one wants to live there?
There is little benefit to refitting derelict buildings to house expensive condos when people are afraid to park their cars outside or walk around. Build office towers or do smart things like Riverside drive and let the private sector dictate expansion and developent.
Waverly West should happen because the private sector says it can work. Does City Hall think they can force 40,000 people downtown? Do they really want to give up $70 000 000 in future taxes, not to mention the vast economic spinoffs that come with that kind of expansion.
And let's be honest, new homes are not going to cost $60,000. They will be big, and expensive. There is a trickledown effect in work when that happens. Nicer homes become available cheaper as the current owners upgrade.
Maybe the realty industry likes a housing shortage where they can charge more for homes and apts, but the rest of us would love a vaceny rate that makes housing more then afforable.
besides, if the province had any balls, they let Winnipeg annex outlaying communities like Alberta does.
Want to know why Calgary is so properous? One reason - they delt with urban sprawl through annexation. That is a honey pot of lost revenue for this backwards city.
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Post by Nick on Jan 11, 2005 17:13:06 GMT -5
People who opposed Waverly West don't do it because they see every one of the 40,000 who would live there living downtown if it isn't built. It makes much more sense, however, to fill in the empty spaces that exist in the city before spreading out further. There exists lots of space in the inner city (not downtown, but neighbourhoods like Wolseley, River Heights, St. Boniface, and the older suburbs like East Kildonan, St. James, Transcona) to house 40,000 people, if the city and developers were creative in doing it--increasing densities being probably the best way of doing it. Too bad, however, that most people are like those who live in Linden Woods:
'NIMBY is alive and well in Winnipeg' Winnipeg Free Press Tue Jan 11 2005 Mary Agnes Welch
CITY councillors brushed aside neighbourhood outrage and approved a controversial condo project yesterday, making Linden Woods the latest battle ground in city hall's half-hearted war against urban sprawl. The surprise decision, made by council's property and development committee, left some in Linden Woods fuming.
"I'm not happy about it," said Larry Dolmer, who gathered 200 signatures on a petition opposing the condo project. "The developer gets their $2 million and the city gets their property taxes but the community can go to hell?"
Genstar Development hopes to build 42 duplexes and bungalows on a vacant tract of land along Linden Woods Drive West, just south of a community club. Residents said they were promised a school on the site, and the proposed duplexes and bungalows are too dense for the neighbourhood.
City staff wouldn't say it outright, but councillors did: The project is a no-brainer.
"We have everyone yelling that we have a shortage of land for housing," said Coun. Franco Magnifico. "It would be a shame to waste this land, especially when the project as they've designed it fits in nicely with the neighbourhood." Another councillor wasn't as diplomatic, muttering to himself that he would not cave in to "Linden Woods snobbery."
But Linden Woods isn't the only neighbourhood to balk at infill development. These sorts of cases pop up monthly at city hall. If River Heights isn't raising a stink about a housing project planned for some abandoned rail land, then folks in North Kildonan are complaining that a non-profit seniors' tower might cast a shadow on their backyards.
That leaves residents clashing constantly with city hall, arguing that a new housing development will boost traffic, shrink green space or cause a fundamental change in the character of their area. Sometimes they are successful, convincing councillors to deny the necessary rezoning.
Meanwhile, city planners champion compact urban development over suburban sprawl because infill housing is simply smarter. It helps keep neighbourhoods vibrant, it's cheaper because it's near existing services such as transit and recreation centres and it puts fewer cars on already-clogged streets.
This perennial conflict coloured last week's marathon public hearings about Waverley West -- the huge new suburb planned for the city's southwest corner on land owned by the province and Ladco.
There, opponents of the suburb argued that Waverley West is nothing but more urban sprawl, unnecessary when there's land ripe for infill housing in older neighbourhoods. But home builders and developers, including Ladco's Alan Borger, pointed to Genstar's uphill battle in Linden Woods, saying it's often futile trying to tout infill's merits in the face of neighbourhood opposition. That, said Borger in his written pitch for Waverley West, is because of the so-called "not in my back yard" syndrome.
"NIMBY is alive and well in Winnipeg," said Borger.
To concentrate development so far out from city limits is doing our city a grave injustice. Downtown is not and can not be saved because of the Hydro Building and the MTS Centre, though the papers would have you believe otherwise.
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Post by The Unknown Poster on Jan 11, 2005 20:02:18 GMT -5
First of all, Downtown is not all that bad. Portage avenue is pretty good. Ofcourse, there have not been the mad rush to buy up property that many expected with the new Arena.
I was very close to putting a deal together with a partner to consider leasing property across from the arena as a nightclub/lounge. Then I realised that there is so much vacent property that there was really no rush.
Downtown should be used for business. I can see condos on portage where crime is not a huge concern.
But North Main is the drizzling sh!ts. City should buy up all those buildings and demolish them and sell them cheap to developers.
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Post by MOC on Jan 12, 2005 13:05:05 GMT -5
The Mitchell Kopp building? Awesome, that'd be another good thing going on downtown, especially in such a nice building.
Anyways, downtown will always be primarily for business, but I can also see residences and condos doing well in the Exchange on both sides of Main, in and around Central Park, between Broadway and Assiniboine, and the West Broadway and Spence St neighbourhoods if downtown is to truly be revitalized. All cities with a vibrant downtown have quality housing in and around the downtown. Winnipeg can be like that.
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Post by jets4life on Jan 13, 2005 3:47:52 GMT -5
This perennial conflict coloured last week's marathon public hearings about Waverley West -- the huge new suburb planned for the city's southwest corner on land owned by the province and Ladco. There, opponents of the suburb argued that Waverley West is nothing but more urban sprawl, unnecessary when there's land ripe for infill housing in older neighbourhoods. But home builders and developers, including Ladco's Alan Borger, pointed to Genstar's uphill battle in Linden Woods, saying it's often futile trying to tout infill's merits in the face of neighbourhood opposition. That, said Borger in his written pitch for Waverley West, is because of the so-called "not in my back yard" syndrome. "NIMBY is alive and well in Winnipeg," said Borger. To concentrate development so far out from city limits is doing our city a grave injustice. Downtown is not and can not be saved because of the Hydro Building and the MTS Centre, though the papers would have you believe otherwise. Where were these "NIMBY's" when the Seine River ecosystem was being depleted? Developers razed much of the Seine River forest, and are building two bridges over the Seine River, just to expand Royalwoods. It's intersting that these naysayers get so worked up about a patch of flat, barren prairie, but do next to nothing when the Southglen bridge was built, and the surrounding forest turned into residential lots, and god-awful man made lakes.
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Post by MOC on Jan 13, 2005 15:50:57 GMT -5
Where were these "NIMBY's" when the Seine River ecosystem was being depleted? Developers razed much of the Seine River forest, and are building two bridges over the Seine River, just to expand Royalwoods. It's intersting that these naysayers get so worked up about a patch of flat, barren prairie, but do next to nothing when the Southglen bridge was built, and the surrounding forest turned into residential lots, and god-awful man made lakes. It has to do with the media and the coverage WW has received (I don't remember much on the Royalwood project), the scope of the project, and the idea that the city and province are passing this without much thought into future consequences this will have on the rest of the city as a whole, not to mention downtown. Also, the province is set to make a whole bunch of money from the sale, so their judgement is somewhat clouded.
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