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Post by Steenager on Jun 14, 2005 21:58:47 GMT -5
Well, mostly. Florida and Carolina are still outside chances.
Even though new ownership has been brought into the Penguin equation, and they confirm that they are commited to keeping the team in Pittsburgh, it is common knowledge that a team can only work if a new arena is built. Any chances of public money coming in to a new arena in Pittsburgh have been all but stamped out by the local Governor. What the Penguins have planned is to recieve a license to open a casino and use the revenue to build the new arena they so desperately need (the igloo is the oldest building in the league).
So watch the Pittsburgh papers closely. The awarding of the "slots license" (which is also being bid on by several other local Pittsburgh groups) is vital to our cause. If it goes to the Penguins, the team has a good chance of staying put. If it goes elsewhere, the team will have to leave.
Anaheim was the other good chance for us, but they just recieved new ownership, which happens to own Arrowhead Pond. The chances of that team leaving have now become slim to none.
Places like Nashville, Florida, Phoenix, and Carolina, that seem like goods bets really aren't. This is mostly due to the fact that most of these teams have cushy arena deals (if they don't outright own them and charge local NBA teams rent) and local governments that are willing to compromise themselves to keep big teams around (even if they have no real fans).
If you think about it, three quarters of what Winnipeg needs either exist or are heavily rumoured or even assumed to exist (new arena, friendly CBA, potential local ownership group). It seems all we really will need in the next year or two, is a team that is willing to leave its current home. So I'm still optimistic, but I feel that the Penguin's losing their chance at a casino is our last good hope.
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Post by crazknuck on Sept 14, 2005 13:54:35 GMT -5
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Post by USApegger on Sept 14, 2005 14:16:44 GMT -5
I don't see Mario moving the Penguins here. He obviously will retain ownership and will go to either Houston or KC, whichever gives him the best lease deal with all the revenue streams. I can't see the current management at MTS Center willing to make a deal with him. But I really believe he wants to keep the team in Pittsburgh, if he can get the rink
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Post by jets2007 on Sept 14, 2005 15:05:09 GMT -5
i seen on sportsnet lastnight that if the penquins sold out every game this year, and made it to the second round of the playoffs,they would still loose 7-10 million dollars this year.geez things must be real bad in pittsburgh.
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Post by Drew on Sept 14, 2005 16:08:25 GMT -5
Usapegger, its not just that hockey doesn't work in the southern states, its in the U.S. period like New Jersey and Washington they don't grow steady market that much either. The only places in the states where hockey does work is in Minnesota, Detroit, and pretty much just across the border of Canada. Plus when KC had the scouts the price of a ticket was much lower then, than now and KC relocated. As for Houston in 1979 when the WHA merged into the NHL, Houston decided just to fold and back then Winnipeg was getting better fan support than Houston was.
I would also like to add that the Moose are getting better fan support than Houston in the AHL. What would be the point of this campaign if the NHL always looks at the states for relocation? No, the NHL is going to look at the guranteed fan support where hockey is number #1 and where they won't have to compete against the NFL and other leagues and Winnipeg has the best support that the NHL will ever get.
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Post by USApegger on Sept 14, 2005 17:26:59 GMT -5
Usapegger, its not just that hockey doesn't work in the southern states, its in the U.S. period like New Jersey and Washington they don't grow steady market that much either. The only places in the states where hockey does work is in Minnesota, Detroit, and pretty much just across the border of Canada. Plus when KC had the scouts the price of a ticket was much lower then, than now and KC relocated. As for Houston in 1979 when the WHA merged into the NHL, Houston decided just to fold and back then Winnipeg was getting better fan support than Houston was. I would also like to add that the Moose are getting better fan support than Houston in the AHL. What would be the point of this campaign if the NHL always looks at the states for relocation? No, the NHL is going to look at the guranteed fan support where hockey is number #1 and where they won't have to compete against the NFL and other leagues and Winnipeg has the best support that the NHL will ever get. Look, first off, I am very aware of the situation of hockey in the States, I have lived in the States most of my life, have you? There will always be way more teams in the States. The teams I see as failures right now are Carolina, Florida and Carolina. Borderline are Phoenix and Anaheim. I think TB may become a strong franchise, they have a young exciting team and TB has the NFL and a really lousy baseball team. Secondly, Mario owns the team, the NHL can't tell him where he can or can't move it. All he needs is a 2/3 vote from the board of governors for approval. He will take the team where he feels he will make money and to the place that will give him the best deal on a lease, concession revenue, parking revenue, suite revenue etc. Right now KC would be that place, they are dying for a tenant at their arena and would probably give him anything to get the team there. Personally, I would love to see the Penguins in Winnipeg, I don't think it will happen with the current owners of MTS Center. I believe that they will stay in Pittsburgh though. Yes KC had a team previously which is now in NJ (who will have a new arena soon), but so did Colorado, Minnesota, The Bay area and even Ottawa, looks like all those franchise with second chances are now thriving.
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Post by HartfordWhalers on Sept 15, 2005 7:07:31 GMT -5
Usapegger, its not just that hockey doesn't work in the southern states, its in the U.S. period like New Jersey and Washington they don't grow steady market that much either. The only places in the states where hockey does work is in Minnesota, Detroit, and pretty much just across the border of Canada. Bla Bla Bla..... Had a pretty long reply prepared but I decided its pointless to argue with crap like that. Only Canadians care about hockey? Yeah, Yeah.......hear that alot here. We are not all like Anaheim, Flordia, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Carolina, Nashville or Phoenix.
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Post by USApegger on Sept 15, 2005 11:04:09 GMT -5
Usapegger, its not just that hockey doesn't work in the southern states, its in the U.S. period like New Jersey and Washington they don't grow steady market that much either. The only places in the states where hockey does work is in Minnesota, Detroit, and pretty much just across the border of Canada. Bla Bla Bla..... Had a pretty long reply prepared but I decided its pointless to argue with crap like that. Only Canadians care about hockey? Yeah, Yeah.......hear that alot here. We are not all like Anaheim, Flordia, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Carolina, Nashville or Phoenix. Hartford, I am with you on this, it gets so annoying after awhile doesn't it?
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Post by jamiebez on Sept 15, 2005 12:22:43 GMT -5
Secondly, Mario owns the team, the NHL can't tell him where he can or can't move it. All he needs is a 2/3 vote from the board of governors for approval. He will take the team where he feels he will make money and to the place that will give him the best deal on a lease, concession revenue, parking revenue, suite revenue etc. Right now KC would be that place, they are dying for a tenant at their arena and would probably give him anything to get the team there. Personally, I would love to see the Penguins in Winnipeg, I don't think it will happen with the current owners of MTS Center. I believe that they will stay in Pittsburgh though. Actually, I think all he needs is a 51% majority from the Board of Governors. I don't think Pittsburgh will move to begin with, and if they do, Winnipeg may not be he best situation for them. Mario will want to retain a controlling interest in the team and will need to negotiate a lease with the MTS Centre. Whereas KC has an arena and just wants a team - there is no lease negotiation necessary - he will get as much money realted to the arena as he wants. Money talks, folks. I think the best situation for Winnipeg is an owner that is looking to sell being bought out completely by a Winnipeg-based group that partners with Chipman to lease the MTS Centre. That probably won't be the case with Pittsburgh.
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Post by USApegger on Sept 15, 2005 14:45:37 GMT -5
Secondly, Mario owns the team, the NHL can't tell him where he can or can't move it. All he needs is a 2/3 vote from the board of governors for approval. He will take the team where he feels he will make money and to the place that will give him the best deal on a lease, concession revenue, parking revenue, suite revenue etc. Right now KC would be that place, they are dying for a tenant at their arena and would probably give him anything to get the team there. Personally, I would love to see the Penguins in Winnipeg, I don't think it will happen with the current owners of MTS Center. I believe that they will stay in Pittsburgh though. Actually, I think all he needs is a 51% majority from the Board of Governors. I don't think Pittsburgh will move to begin with, and if they do, Winnipeg may not be the best situation for them. Mario will want to retain a controlling interest in the team and will need to negotiate a lease with the MTS Centre. Whereas KC has an arena and just wants a team - there is no lease negotiation necessary - he will get as much money related to the arena as he wants. Money talks, folks. Thank you, that's exactly what I said a few posts above. I also agree Winnipeg would be much better off buying a team, than having an owner negotiate at lease with the MTS Center
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Post by nphlinline on Sept 15, 2005 17:03:35 GMT -5
I hate to say it (on my part) but Pittsburgh is the team with the best chance at relocating by far. The politics in Pennsylvania are VERY corrupt. Lemiuex has said that with a slots liscense, an arena is a good possibility. The Governor of the State, Ed Rendell, is not only a homer to Philadelphia, (he'd use all the tax dollars needed if the Flyers even mentioned moving), but will also give the slots liscense to people who backed his campaign (meaning that the Penguins will not get anything in terms of slots revenue).
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Post by jetsnevertoreturn on Sept 20, 2005 1:35:54 GMT -5
ok guys think about it for a second. Mario is complaining about not being able to make the pens a viable team because their current arena, which is 16,000 +, does not have capabilities to make em the profit they need. Do you really think the MTS centre which is smaller than the mellon arena really have a chance? That team, if leaves pittsburgh, will relocate to either Kansas(which has a brand new building comming as soon as the mellon arena agreement expires in 2007) or portland. There is a huge hockey buzz in pittsburgh now, so I'm not sure if they will move or not.
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Post by jamiebez on Sept 20, 2005 8:51:14 GMT -5
ok guys think about it for a second. Mario is complaining about not being able to make the pens a viable team because their current arena, which is 16,000 +, does not have capabilities to make em the profit they need. Do you really think the MTS centre which is smaller than the mellon arena really have a chance? That team, if leaves pittsburgh, will relocate to either Kansas(which has a brand new building comming as soon as the mellon arena agreement expires in 2007) or portland. There is a huge hockey buzz in pittsburgh now, so I'm not sure if they will move or not. Again, I still don't think the Penguins are moving, but you can't seriously prefer a 40-year old arena to a brand new one because it has 1500 more seats? The differences between Mellon Arena and the MTS Centre go beyond just their capacities.... Mellon has very few luxury suites, is almost 40 years old, has several obstructed few seats, and has undergone 3 major renovations over the years. It's actually a much better comparison to Winnipeg Arena. There are a lot of ways that a new arena can generate revenue for you - more luxury suites and club seats (which sell at a higher price); more space for advertising revenue on state of the art scoreboards, or the "power ring" like MTS has; better sightlines and concourses, which make a better game experience for the fans; better concessions and restaurants. I could go on and on. Mellon Arena is by far the most outdated arena in the NHL. The MTS Centre would be a huge step up in terms of potential revenue.
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