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Post by joelzillmanwpg on Apr 25, 2005 18:46:48 GMT -5
It is a bit different in the Los Angeles market as the Mighty Ducks identify with the suburban "satellite" city of Anaheim. Not really. There won't be 2 NHL teams in the greater Los Angeles area for very long. Once the NHL resumes, look for the Mighty Ducks to relocate in five years tops, new owner, or not...
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Post by MOC on Apr 25, 2005 18:53:34 GMT -5
The Wings are Gods in Detroit. Just ask the Detroit Vipers of the IHL. club. They are the top dogs, but, being a hockey town, the Vipers fared very well in the Palace. As of the end of 95-96, 15 of the top 25 grossing IHL games were hosted by the Vipers, with the top 9 of all time in Detroit - sold out 20,000+. All 15 games took place with the space of 4-5 years, so they weren't one-off events.
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Post by joelzillmanwpg on Apr 25, 2005 19:31:36 GMT -5
They are the top dogs, but, being a hockey town, the Vipers fared very well in the Palace. As of the end of 95-96, 15 of the top 25 grossing IHL games were hosted by the Vipers, with the top 9 of all time in Detroit - sold out 20,000+. All 15 games took place with the space of 4-5 years, so they weren't one-off events. Then the Wings won the Cup in 1997, and the Vipers fan base shrunk to 4,000 before folding.
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Post by USApegger on Apr 25, 2005 19:33:14 GMT -5
Then the Wings won the Cup in 1997, and the Vipers fan base shrunk to 4,000 before folding. Didn't the Vipers sign some junior that was supposed to be a big superstar, I can't remember the name
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Post by MOC on Apr 25, 2005 19:38:49 GMT -5
Then the Wings won the Cup in 1997, and the Vipers fan base shrunk to 4,000 before folding. Well, yes. But only a Red Wing Cup and the known demise of the Vipers could bring about a rapid decline in the fanbase. For years they were a viable and well-liked alternative to the Wings.
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Post by HartfordWhalers on Apr 27, 2005 15:10:30 GMT -5
Why the hell would he want the team to move to Detroit, and compete with the Red Wings? Detroit can't support 2 NHL teams! That would make the NHL look like a bush league. Before the Whalers officially announced there plans to move to Carolina Karmanos actually went on record saying he was thinking about playing in an old airplane hanger in Columbus if he ended up moving his team there.......no joke, you cant make this stuff up. Supposedly it was after that story that the league jumped in and Im sure they had a "heart to heart" talk with ol' Pete.
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Post by USApegger on Apr 27, 2005 17:42:47 GMT -5
I remember that as well, this guy has an incredible ego, just reading all the other junk about him. Too bad he didn't go away during the dot com crash, but I guess his main business is software
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Post by cbjDavid on May 1, 2005 13:48:09 GMT -5
Before the Whalers officially announced there plans to move to Carolina Karmanos actually went on record saying he was thinking about playing in an old airplane hanger in Columbus if he ended up moving his team there.......no joke, you cant make this stuff up. Supposedly it was after that story that the league jumped in and Im sure they had a "heart to heart" talk with ol' Pete. Karmanos toured Columbus (he supposedly has business interests here), and was considering having his team play in a renovated hangar while an NHL facility was being built. A hastily-prepared tax levy was thrown together to fund the arena, with Karmanos' team advertised as the primary tenant. Polls shortly before the actual vote showed opinions close, with those against the levy holding a slight advantage. On the eve of the election, Karmanos screwed the arena-tax supporters (including me) by announcing that he had reached a deal with Raleigh. Without a maor tenant, the arena-tax issue went down big. Thankfully, several major corporate players got together to arrange details for a privately-funded arena, with John McConnell (a self-made multi-millionaire) offering to be the major investor in a group to own the team. The two groups (the arena ownership and McConnell's group) pitched their proposal to Bettman, and Columbus was granted an expansion franchise. I often wonder if Karmanos wishes he had stuck around to see the outcome of the arena-tax issue here --- even if the issue had been defeated, the privately-funded arena plan would have given Karmanos an arena, in a market that has turned out to be quite supportive at the ticket window. Oh well ... Karmanos is having trouble drawing flies in Raleigh, and Columbus has a brand new, state-of-the-art arena --- and a new team that belongs to us and not the poor fans of Hartford.
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Post by joelzillmanwpg on May 1, 2005 16:30:51 GMT -5
I often wonder if Karmanos wishes he had stuck around to see the outcome of the arena-tax issue here --- even if the issue had been defeated, the privately-funded arena plan would have given Karmanos an arena, in a market that has turned out to be quite supportive at the ticket window. I often wonder if Karmanos has a conscience..
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Post by HartfordWhalers on May 2, 2005 9:04:50 GMT -5
These are a few paragraphs from various stories about the Hurricanes in Carolina......
1. Doctor Karmanos' Traveling Road Show debuts. "Anywhere But Hartford" seems to be opening number. Columbus, Raleigh, Minneapolis, St. Paul, even Las Vegas are mentioned as possible relocation sites. Eyes roll when Karmanos announces that the team is considering renovating a 55-year-old, abandoned Ohio aircraft hangar as a temporary home until a new arena can be built in Columbus.....
2. "I'd be the most surprised person in Greensboro if the Hartford Whalers came here," says Tom Ward, chairman of the Greensboro Sports Commission. "The corporate effort now is focused on baseball. I wonder where the corporate support for hockey is going to come from." "Anybody who seriously thinks Mr. Karmanos is going to move here has been smoking cigarettes without the labels," adds Carolina Monarchs spokesman Don Helbig. The AHL Monarchs would have to vacate the Greensboro Coliseum to make way for the wayward NHL team.
3. An article in the Raleigh News and Observer notes that "team officials are quick to admit they had no time to conduct market research before the move was finalized....An indication of how much the Hurricanes misjudged the market is season ticket sales. In May, team officials predicted 8,000 to 10,000 would be sold for this season. With the first regular-season game less than a month away, 5,000 seems almost beyond reach." The team had actually predicted 12,000 (see: July), but the local media is uncommonly accommodating. The team will eventually sell 3,083 season tickets. The TV pact is announced; the team had expected to televise all games and sign a deal in the $4-7 million range, up from $1 million in Hartford. Instead, only 29 games will be covered, fewest in the league, nine of which will be "educational" games with no advertising. "Nothing happens overnight," Peter Karmanos is quoted as saying.
4. With the NHL in recess for the Olympic Winter Games, and the team seven points out of the playoffs, the Hurricanes make some news by tendering an offer to disgruntled Detroit star Sergei Fedorov. The Hurricanes, desperate for help on the offense and hopeful that a "name" star will fill some seats, offer $38 million -- including a $26 million signing bonus, $14 million to be paid up front and $12 million paid over the next four years or in one lump sum if the team makes the conference finals. The deal is structured to make it difficult for the high-payroll Wings to match. The NHL rejects the offer sheet on grounds that it violates the league's Collective Bargaining Agreement, and in arbitration argues that the deal is unfair because Detroit is likely to make the conference final in 1998 while Carolina is unlikely to even make the playoffs. On February 25 the arbiter rules in favor of Carolina, but within an hour the Red Wings, as they have always insisted they would, match the offer and Fedorov returns to Detroit.
Karmanos, who had said he was optimistic that the Red Wings wouldn't match the offer, changes his tune the day of the settlement. "I always expected they were going to match," he says. The front-loaded offer didn't go over too well around the NHL. Boston general manager Harry Sinden declares it "a ridiculous offer." Sinden points out that offers of that kind usually backfire: either the original team matches the offer or the team gets the player, only to have the deal fail to lead to a Stanley Cup. "It hasn't worked yet, has it?" Red Wings coach Scotty Bowman says the Hurricanes "need to do some research into running a team." A Flames executive tells the Calgary Sun, "There are a few owners in the league, and they are killing our game. They are going to wipe out the small-market team. They care about themselves only and not the league."
5. A local bar holds a party to shred issues of Sports Illustrated. About 40 show up, mostly event organizers and the media. Comment from a Raleigh fan: "If I had been the marketing man for the Hurricanes, I would have paid people to fill this place." Someone must have been listening: on November 13 the team announces that they will give away a car at every one of the 20 home games until the Olympic break. Rick Francis, the Hurricanes' vice president for marketing and sales, says he didn't think the team would ever have to resort to such a dramatic promotion. "We never gave away a vehicle in Hartford," Francis tells the Greensboro News and Record. "Not one. I can tell you that." In addition, anyone test driving a Ford will get a coupon for two free tickets, to any game, for any seats in the house except club seats. The promotion could cost the team $4 million; assuming, of course, that anyone redeems the coupons. The team's marketing budget in Hartford was around $100,000.
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Post by USApegger on May 2, 2005 10:59:02 GMT -5
I have read some of this before, but it always makes a good read again! The guy is just one of the most irresponsible owners in the NHL, if not the most. You can say the Rangers spend a lot, they can afford it and I believe they have realized that it doesn't work.
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