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Post by FrontierSaga on May 3, 2005 13:24:12 GMT -5
Does anyone remember this moment...I sure do. They announced that Denis Savard and Joe Mullen were gonna be inducted into the hall of fame even though Hawerchuk was one his first eligable chance...and writers and journalist predicted he would get in the moment he retired...was snubbed for those two players. Then a massive out pour of support for hawerchuk happend telling the HHOF they made a mistake for not letting him in...then in 2001 he was inducted where he belonged with Gartner, Kurri and Fetisov.
Did Hawerchuk deserve to be in there BEFORE Savard and Mullen ever did..
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Post by USApegger on May 3, 2005 18:02:33 GMT -5
I think there is a good argument for all three. They all had great careers during their prime and it is tough to say who was better. The other two were on Cup winning teams, maybe that was the difference
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Post by blackthorne on May 3, 2005 23:28:48 GMT -5
If Hawerchuk had played on the LEAFS he sure as Hell would've been inducted his first chance...
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Post by Yar on May 4, 2005 12:43:05 GMT -5
had we been able to finnish off the oilers in 1990 and then went on to win it all, then he would have been in on his first eligible year. stupid oilers always kicking our arses.
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Post by USApegger on May 4, 2005 13:06:30 GMT -5
If Hawerchuk had played on the LEAFS he sure as Hell would've been inducted his first chance... Perhaps, but then Joe Mullen and Denis Sarvard never played for the Leafs either. Hawerchuk was a great player, but all he ever won in his pro career was a Canada Cup (where he was a dominant player), the other guys won cups which may have been a tie breaker for that year.
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Post by jamiebez on May 4, 2005 13:52:03 GMT -5
I think he should have got in ahead of either of those guys. Savard won a Cup in 1993 with Montreal, but he was injured for much of the playoffs that year and didn't play a key role. He had some awesome years in Chicago, no doubt, but Dale was a better player over virtually the same period. Mullen was a key guy on very good teams with Pittsburgh and Calgary and he scored a ton of goals, but he never carried a franchise like Ducky did. Here's the career stats: Mullen: 1062 GP, 1063 Pts Savard: 1196 GP, 1338 Pts Hawerchuk: 1188 GP, 1409 Pts Dale was robbed 'Nuff said.
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Post by bigchris on May 4, 2005 17:49:47 GMT -5
Dale got burned but even the media was condemning Dale at the time. John Garrett was dead set against Dale's induction saying he was a "3rd liner at best in his PRIME". Kyprius, McKenzie and even Micheal Lansburg thought he shouldn't have been on the ballot.
The rationale was that Dale was to be the test case for weather or not 500 goals should be enough to get into the hall. (So many players were getting to 600 seemingly with ease that there was a consensus that future 500 goal men would be what 3-400 goal men are in the eyes of the hall now.) As far as I am concerned, Joe Mullen should have been considered for test case status, not Dale. Joe was a cog in the wheel, never a go to guy at any time in his career. In fact, aside from his 500 goals his claim to fame is being the guy St. Louis gave up for Brett Hull. (As far as I know...) Being American, riding Mario's coattails to 2 cups and having 500 goals are all Mullen had. While Dale never won a cup, he did get there in his final season in 1997 with Philadelphia. (He even put up decent numbers in the playoffs that year.)
As for Savard, he was by far the most exciting puckhandler of all time. He was an absolute magician out there. If Pistol Pete Maravich is in the basketball HOF on the strength of that alone, (a couple of scoring titles but absolutely nothing else to show for his career including zero playoff success,) then Savard belongs in the hockey HOF as well. That said, unlike Pistol, Savard did put up good enough numbers to get him in.
Unlike Hawerchuck or Mullen, Denis ended his career with a flash back in Chicago. It was like they had turned the clock back a decade as Savard was the Savard of old and he was the sparkplug to Chicago's last semi-final appearance in 1995. (I got goosebumps when he got standing ovations just for stepping on the ice in Chicago.) If you judge someone on their last days, Savard has both Hawerchuck and Mullen beat by a mile.
That said, Dale and Savard should have been given their inductions in 2000. Mullen, Ciccarelli and McDonald should be the test cases for 500 not being good enough to get in. The HOF made a huge miscallcualtion when they tried to be tough with a test case.
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Post by Hannu Smail on May 8, 2005 23:54:26 GMT -5
Dale got burned but even the media was condemning Dale at the time. John Garrett was dead set against Dale's induction saying he was a "3rd liner at best in his PRIME". While I agree it was a BS comment by Garrett, who used to do color on the old cky broadcasts if I remember correctly, I think the actual quote said he would have been a 3rd line center at best on the Oilers dynasty teams, not in general.
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Post by Yar on May 10, 2005 7:05:54 GMT -5
a third line center behind gretzky and messier is still extremely good. those are the 2 top point getters in the history of the nhl. and dont forget that ducky never had the support that the players on the oilers did.
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Post by Laurier on May 10, 2005 16:37:51 GMT -5
I was thinking the exact same thing Yar and was about to post something almost the exact same.
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Post by joelzillmanwpg on May 11, 2005 16:21:49 GMT -5
a third line center behind gretzky and messier is still extremely good. those are the 2 top point getters in the history of the nhl. and dont forget that ducky never had the support that the players on the oilers did. Hawerchuk was better than Messier from 1981-88. Messier was a bit of a late bloomer, not acheiving his full potential until he was 30, while Ducky had his best years in his early 20's. Gretzky was the same way, as he had his arguably finest season in 1982, at the age of 21. Brett Hull, on the other hand, didn't really break out until he was 25. Hawerchuk was no match for Messier in the 90's, but I believe he would have been second only to Gretzky on any given Oilers lineup during the Great One's years in Edmonton.
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Post by FrontierSaga on May 11, 2005 23:20:00 GMT -5
Gretzky made Messier, Kurri, Anderson, Coffey in Edmonton and when they disbandon, Messier bloomed into the Rangers "savior" and was a good player.
Adam Oates...YES ADAM OATES!!!!...made Bret Hull into a star with all those goals he scored in a 3 year span..you know those 228 goals in 3 years...
Hawerchuk made himself a good player and he did have a good supporting cast around him in Winnipeg...Boschman, Maclean, Mullen, Steen..
In Buffalo he was centered around Lafontaine and Mogliny and Andrechuk.
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Post by bigchris on May 12, 2005 20:39:06 GMT -5
Gretzky made Messier, Kurri, Anderson, Coffey in Edmonton and when they disbandon, Messier bloomed into the Rangers "savior" and was a good player. Adam Oates...YES ADAM OATES!!!!...made Bret Hull into a star with all those goals he scored in a 3 year span..you know those 228 goals in 3 years... Hawerchuk made himself a good player and he did have a good supporting cast around him in Winnipeg...Boschman, Maclean, Mullen, Steen.. In Buffalo he was centered around Lafontaine and Mogliny and Andrechuk. And wasn't Mogilny's only great season the one where he rode Dale's passes to a 76 goal year?? And they say Dale didn't make anyone better out there...
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Post by MOC on May 12, 2005 21:01:48 GMT -5
Pat LaFontaine and Dale Hawerchuk are both listed as centres; I know LaFontaine played all year with Mogilny (the right winger), so did Hawerchuk play the left wing? Or were most of his 80 assists that year on the power play while playing centre on the second line?
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Post by FrontierSaga on May 12, 2005 21:46:23 GMT -5
I believe Hawerchuk played on the second line and on the power play...the TOP line for Buffalo that year was Andrychuk, Lafontaine and Mogilny....Andrychuk left mid season so whoever can fill left wing must have.
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Post by jets4ever on May 22, 2005 16:05:07 GMT -5
Hawerchuk was a great player, but all he ever won in his pro career was a Canada Cup (where he was a dominant player), the other guys won cups which may have been a tie breaker for that year. But, he won back-to-back Memorial Cup's in Junior. And, if it's based on a player's NHL career only, why are Tretiak and Fetisov in the Hall? Both of their greatest moment's took place in Europe, or during International Competition.
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Post by butteredbunhotdog on May 23, 2005 11:48:54 GMT -5
I WATCHED DUCKIE FOR EVERY YEAR TILL I LEFT IN 90 AND BY FAR HE WAS THE BEST AND ALWAYS TOP 10 IN THE LEAGUE. WHAT PISSED ME OFF AND STILL PISSES ME OFF IS THE WAY THE REST OF THE LEAGUE AND THE MEDIA RODE HIS Go Jets Go WHEN THE JETS WERE SUCKIN. HE DESERVED TO BE IN THE HALL OF FAME YEARS AGO FOR THE WAY HE CARRIED HIMSELF DURING HIS CAREER. WHEN THE JETS DID WELL IT WAS THE JETS DOIN GOOD,BUT WHEN THE JETS SUCKED Go Jets Go IT WAS DUCKIE NOT PLAYIN THAT GOOD,"SO THEY WOULD SAY". MY HAT IS OFF TO DALE. CLASS ACT... GO JETS GO GO JETS GO!!!!! sec 48 rules upper deck
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Post by jets4ever on May 23, 2005 15:30:53 GMT -5
Oh well.
What's done is done.
He's in. And, that's all that's matters.
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Post by vivianmb on Jun 3, 2005 15:16:54 GMT -5
ducky played with juri khymelev and randy wood/wayne presley.he also played point/center on the pp. i watched hockey all through the eighties,and from 1980-1985/86 only two were better than dale.trottier and gretzky.in the late eighties maybe lemieux,messier and gretzky.on a side note i remember the rangers were trying to get him and iwas cringing at the thought of my favorite player in the hated ranger uniform.one night my dad and i went to a sabre /isles game at the colliseum,and ducky scored off the faceoff.as soon as the puck was dropped he ripped it right in.that was the first time i ever saw anyone do that.even my unimpressible old man raised his eyebrows.one time in montreal at a junior tournament i was playin in i wore my jets sweater (#10 of course)between games for luck and some dipstick from utica ny makes a comment about dale suckin.well guess who we played the next day.besides having a goal i nailed this guy twice.at the handshake i said "hawerchuck rules buddy" .i'll never forget that.
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Post by hawker14 on Jun 6, 2005 8:22:41 GMT -5
he definitely should have been a first ballot hall of famer.
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