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Post by cheswick on Nov 28, 2010 23:22:08 GMT -5
^^^ Only if hes willing to build a new arena! The current owners of the Thrashers also own the Hawks of the NBA and the arena both teams play out of. They dont even want the Thrashers playing out of their arena. And its the only suitable arena for NHL hockey in Atlanta!  Riiiiiight. Cause an arena owner wouldn't want more dates booked in their building |
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Post by wagner3 on Nov 28, 2010 23:38:26 GMT -5
^^^ Only if hes willing to build a new arena! The current owners of the Thrashers also own the Hawks of the NBA and the arena both teams play out of. They dont even want the Thrashers playing out of their arena. And its the only suitable arena for NHL hockey in Atlanta! Riiiiiight. Cause an arena owner wouldn't want more dates booked in their building No, this is my understanding: First, the arena is owned by the public and leased to Atlanta Spirit Group. Atlanta Spirit owns the master lease, NBA Hawks and NHL Thrashers. They receive revenues from non-sports events also. The Thrashers lose millions each year. Even the Hawks don't do very well. One solution is to sell the Thrashers for say $170 million and stop bleeding $20 million per year on hockey operations. Having only one pro team at the Philips Arena may also improve the attendance of the Hawks and consolidate the corporate and other support behind one pro franchise making it profitable. The NBA Hawks are tied to the arena lease due to agreement with the city, the owners of the arena (much like the Coyotes were tied to Jobing.com Arena prior to bankruptcy). The NHL Thrashers were an add-on franchise and are not tied to the lease. The naming rights, however, were premised on both an NHL and NBA franchise playing out of the arena. Naming rights can, however, be renegotiated. ... I throw this out there but it is something that has crossed my mind. Thomson could buy out the entire Atlanta Spirit Group. Ship the Thrashers to Winnipeg. Rename the arena the Reuters Center and then keep both operations or sell off the Hawks and the arena...no idea if Thomson would have any interest in doing that, but he does have the $$$$ if he wanted to... |
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Post by jetsorbust on Nov 29, 2010 0:20:31 GMT -5
Riiiiiight. Cause an arena owner wouldn't want more dates booked in their building No, this is my understanding: First, the arena is owned by the public and leased to Atlanta Spirit Group. Atlanta Spirit owns the master lease, NBA Hawks and NHL Thrashers. They receive revenues from non-sports events also. The Thrashers lose millions each year. Even the Hawks don't do very well. One solution is to sell the Thrashers for say $170 million and stop bleeding $20 million per year on hockey operations. Having only one pro team at the Philips Arena may also improve the attendance of the Hawks and consolidate the corporate and other support behind one pro franchise making it profitable. The NBA Hawks are tied to the arena lease due to agreement with the city, the owners of the arena (much like the Coyotes were tied to Jobing.com Arena prior to bankruptcy). The NHL Thrashers were an add-on franchise and are not tied to the lease. The naming rights, however, were premised on both an NHL and NBA franchise playing out of the arena. Naming rights can, however, be renegotiated. ... I throw this out there but it is something that has crossed my mind. Thomson could buy out the entire Atlanta Spirit Group. Ship the Thrashers to Winnipeg. Rename the arena the Reuters Center and then keep both operations or sell off the Hawks and the arena...no idea if Thomson would have any interest in doing that, but he does have the $$$$ if he wanted to... Everything you said here makes sense to me, up to the point where you talked about Chipman buying the whole operation. That just seems a bit drastic to me. But Atlanta does seem like a franchise that's "ripe for the picking", because there seems to be very little stopping a move if the owners decide to sell. |
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Post by wpgmikos on Nov 29, 2010 0:51:17 GMT -5
Read closely. He's saying it would be the second time Canada has "stolen" a team from Atlanta. He's referring to the Flames. Here was the line: While he may have meant Calgary, the above line would appear to reference Winnipeg. Who cares. Anyways, I personally would rather see the Yotes return to Winnipeg. Good young team. Full circle for Shane Doan. We could finally have a proper retirement ceremony for Hawerchuk & Numminen. And when the Jets win the Stanley Cup in 2015, we could have Eddie O come down and yell, "we're bringing it back to Winnipeg". |
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Post by wagner3 on Nov 29, 2010 1:11:05 GMT -5
No, this is my understanding: First, the arena is owned by the public and leased to Atlanta Spirit Group. Atlanta Spirit owns the master lease, NBA Hawks and NHL Thrashers. They receive revenues from non-sports events also. The Thrashers lose millions each year. Even the Hawks don't do very well. One solution is to sell the Thrashers for say $170 million and stop bleeding $20 million per year on hockey operations. Having only one pro team at the Philips Arena may also improve the attendance of the Hawks and consolidate the corporate and other support behind one pro franchise making it profitable. The NBA Hawks are tied to the arena lease due to agreement with the city, the owners of the arena (much like the Coyotes were tied to Jobing.com Arena prior to bankruptcy). The NHL Thrashers were an add-on franchise and are not tied to the lease. The naming rights, however, were premised on both an NHL and NBA franchise playing out of the arena. Naming rights can, however, be renegotiated. ... I throw this out there but it is something that has crossed my mind. Thomson could buy out the entire Atlanta Spirit Group. Ship the Thrashers to Winnipeg. Rename the arena the Reuters Center and then keep both operations or sell off the Hawks and the arena...no idea if Thomson would have any interest in doing that, but he does have the $$$$ if he wanted to... Everything you said here makes sense to me, up to the point where you talked about Chipman buying the whole operation. That just seems a bit drastic to me. But Atlanta does seem like a franchise that's "ripe for the picking", because there seems to be very little stopping a move if the owners decide to sell. like i said i was just "throwing it out" there as a thought that had crossed my mind...and also, i never said anything about Chipman...put it this way, if i was putting myself in Thomson's shoes, it would be one way of making it happen...he has the money, but i have no idea if he'd consider such a drastic move...he could certainly do it though, if he was so inclined and assuming Atlanta Spirit wants to sell...whether it would make business sense or if he is that motivated or if it was even necessary are other matters... |
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Post by wpgmikos on Nov 29, 2010 1:49:14 GMT -5
like i said i was just "throwing it out" there as a thought that had crossed my mind...and also, i never said anything about Chipman...put it this way, if i was putting myself in Thomson's shoes, it would be one way of making it happen...he has the money, but i have no idea if he'd consider such a drastic move...he could certainly do it though, if he was so inclined and assuming Atlanta Spirit wants to sell...whether it would make business sense or if he is that motivated or if it was even necessary are other matters... Can't see TNSE making any waves. These guys have gone slow and steady for all these years. They aren't going to suddenly cannonball into the pool. |
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Post by No Longer Cautious! on Nov 29, 2010 10:21:57 GMT -5
Go WWWAAAYYYYY back to the October before the Olympics. Remember the rumor was that the Thrashers were moving to Winnipeg and the Coyotes were moving to Kansas City and that the announcement was coming after the Olympics to keep the focus on Vancouver. Obviously that was bs but I think the rumor arose from fact. The fact is that Chipman wanted the Thrashers (and maybe the price is better) and then they can start a new legacy. It might also solve some of the Jets naming discussion as it wouldn't be the return of the Jets. As it turns out the Phoenix situation was melting down and the NHL says to Chipman - "OK we may need you to bail out this team first. Are you OK with that?" They probably respond in positive fashion. When Phoenix gets done and they stay, we will all cry foul and that we were used, which we were, but it was with Chipman's blessing as it was always all about the Thrashers and the Coyotes were a diversion. In fact, we may have already had the Thrashers but the delay in the Coyotes saga forced that deal on the back burner. Irony is cruel but it may be that the biggest discussion on these boards is the one that is causing us the biggest delay in getting the Thrashers?  ? |
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Post by jjmoohead on Nov 29, 2010 11:44:31 GMT -5
I have no doubt that Atlanta was very close to coming here. I think to say that Phoenix is delaying us though isn't all that fair. I can see the NHL saying something along the lines of "If Phoenix moves, it should go to Winnipeg." In fact, Bettman did say that in an email to Daly. Due to the history of the team, Winnipeg should be first choice. As we all know, we were 15 minutes from getting the Coyotes back, we had a news conference ready to go.
If the Atlanta part is true and they were the orginal plan, I still think the NHL did a good thing to put that on hold for the sake of a team history. But then again, it may have nothing to do with it.
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Post by WJG on Nov 29, 2010 12:08:10 GMT -5
IMO, Atlanta is moving either way.
If the Coyotes cannot find a way to stay in Glendale, then they're coming here and the Thrashers are moving to Quebec City.
If they do stay, we get the Thrashers like we were originally supposed to, and Quebec City goes to the top of the queue line.
But the fact that Quebec City is suddenly working so hard to prepare for an NHL team makes me thing that the first scenario is very likely to happen.
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Post by jetsfan88 on Nov 29, 2010 12:35:07 GMT -5
Go WWWAAAYYYYY back to the October before the Olympics. Remember the rumor was that the Thrashers were moving to Winnipeg and the Coyotes were moving to Kansas City and that the announcement was coming after the Olympics to keep the focus on Vancouver. Obviously that was bs but I think the rumor arose from fact. The fact is that Chipman wanted the Thrashers (and maybe the price is better) and then they can start a new legacy. It might also solve some of the Jets naming discussion as it wouldn't be the return of the Jets. As it turns out the Phoenix situation was melting down and the NHL says to Chipman - "OK we may need you to bail out this team first. Are you OK with that?" They probably respond in positive fashion. When Phoenix gets done and they stay, we will all cry foul and that we were used, which we were, but it was with Chipman's blessing as it was always all about the Thrashers and the Coyotes were a diversion. In fact, we may have already had the Thrashers but the delay in the Coyotes saga forced that deal on the back burner. Irony is cruel but it may be that the biggest discussion on these boards is the one that is causing us the biggest delay in getting the Thrashers? ? Finally we have a winner! You are exactly correct. Billionaires do not get used without knowing it. Atlanta fans should be thanking Phoenix that they still have a team this year. |
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Post by WpgJets2008 on Nov 29, 2010 12:46:00 GMT -5
^^^ Only if hes willing to build a new arena! The current owners of the Thrashers also own the Hawks of the NBA and the arena both teams play out of. They dont even want the Thrashers playing out of their arena. And its the only suitable arena for NHL hockey in Atlanta! Riiiiiight. Cause an arena owner wouldn't want more dates booked in their building What would you rather have if you were an arena owner or operator that owns the NBA team but not the NHL team? a) 40 NHL nights where the NHL team owner pays you $500,000 rent per season and keeps all game day revenues. Not to mention splitting the suite holders rental by a portion for hockey (that your NBA team would normally keep). b) 40 extra open nights where you can schedule in concerts, etc and keep all the day's revenue for yourself. No splitting of any revenues to anyone else! Aren't both of these above scenarios better than being an owner of the NBA and NHL teams, where the NHL team loses $10 to $20 million yearly with naming rights of $10 million split essentially between hockey and basketball? To say nothing of splitting fees for suites and the remaining non-NHL and non-NBA nights? the naming rights fee is a red herring since the fees don't cover the NHL team losses. So if losing the team means losing the naming rights, then the owners come out ahead even before you consider them receiving $140 to $170 million cash for ridding themselves of the NHL team.And if you can't break-even with access to all these extra revenues as a rink operator, just how will an NHL team as only a lowly tenant make ends meet? That's why it is easy to conclude that new ownership will do nothing for the business model that the Thrashers find themselves, only a new city or a new rink.And I have researched the GAA, there are no reasonable NHL caliber rinks available other than Phillips. But there are many concert halls that will cut into your non-sporting revenues for certain. Remember, until the Coyotes went bankrupt which allowed them to break all current contracts including their lease and the $600 million penalty to break it, it was the Thrashers that were seen as the easily-portable franchise throughout the NHL. These are those reasons why. The mystique of having Ted Turner and his communications giant TBS and CNN as an NHL owner has evaporated. Meaning: that market isn't nearly as attractive to the NHL, even before annual losses around $10 million became the norm. The NHL has a history of falling in love with media giants. Hears hoping that doesn't change anytime soon! ~~~ The MTSC is blessed to be the only rink for NHL hockey for hundreds of miles, while also being blessed as the only major concert venue except for outdoor concerts at Winnipeg Stadium. It may be alot smaller than Atlanta, but supply and demand keep making the MTSC alot rosier than Winnipeg's population might suggest at first blush. Chris |
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Post by 14pac03 on Nov 29, 2010 13:53:13 GMT -5
IMO, Atlanta is moving either way. If the Coyotes cannot find a way to stay in Glendale, then they're coming here and the Thrashers are moving to Quebec City. If they do stay, we get the Thrashers like we were originally supposed to, and Quebec City goes to the top of the queue line. But the fact that Quebec City is suddenly working so hard to prepare for an NHL team makes me thing that the first scenario is very likely to happen. I agree! |
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Post by yoyomon on Nov 29, 2010 14:19:09 GMT -5
Go WWWAAAYYYYY back to the October before the Olympics. Remember the rumor was that the Thrashers were moving to Winnipeg and the Coyotes were moving to Kansas City and that the announcement was coming after the Olympics to keep the focus on Vancouver. Obviously that was bs but I think the rumor arose from fact. The fact is that Chipman wanted the Thrashers (and maybe the price is better) and then they can start a new legacy. It might also solve some of the Jets naming discussion as it wouldn't be the return of the Jets. As it turns out the Phoenix situation was melting down and the NHL says to Chipman - "OK we may need you to bail out this team first. Are you OK with that?" They probably respond in positive fashion. When Phoenix gets done and they stay, we will all cry foul and that we were used, which we were, but it was with Chipman's blessing as it was always all about the Thrashers and the Coyotes were a diversion. In fact, we may have already had the Thrashers but the delay in the Coyotes saga forced that deal on the back burner. Irony is cruel but it may be that the biggest discussion on these boards is the one that is causing us the biggest delay in getting the Thrashers? ? I agree with this, as I believe Atlanta was the city TNSE was originally focused on prior to the Phoenix diversion. Those knuckleheads in Phoenix may just end up keeping their team, but I think Atlanta is destined for Winnipeg in the spring of 2011. |
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Post by cnorthstar68 on Nov 29, 2010 18:47:38 GMT -5
what about hartford arent they waiting
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Post by Douggy-D on Nov 29, 2010 19:29:55 GMT -5
This may be a bit of a dumb question, but since I just started following this debacle in July and didn't make an account until the end of September, how was Winnipeg 15 minutes away from getting the Coyotes, I know the COG had a city council meeting on May 11th, and I think what happened was that they agreed to cover the losses for the Coyotes, but if they said no then the team would've moved back to Winnipeg? Is that it?
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Post by The Unknown Poster on Nov 29, 2010 19:44:27 GMT -5
it was confirmed by inside sources that TN had actually prepared a media conference with a stage and backdropped announcing the purchase of the Coyotes. That was when the NHL gave COG an ultimatum to fork over $25 million or else...and COG caved.
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arad
Prime Member
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Post by arad on Nov 29, 2010 20:34:02 GMT -5
I believe the story was that they caved 15 minutes, before a 4 p.m. Friday deadline!
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