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Post by JETStender on Jun 2, 2009 3:03:42 GMT -5
Balsillie won't win, but Hamilton will get in, insider believesBy GABE MACALUSO Last Updated: 2nd June 2009, 3:12am With Jim Balsillie attempting to move the Phoenix Coyotes to southern Ontario, Gabe Macaluso offers an insider's thoughts on an NHL team settling in Hamilton. Macaluso headed up several attempts to bring an NHL team to Hamilton while serving as CEO of Copps Coliseum from 1989 to 2005. I can't believe the positive spin some of the news outlets are giving to Jim Balsillie's bid to buy the Phoenix Coyotes and move them to Copps Coliseum. I know one thing for sure. In listening to Judge Redfield T. Baum last week he wanted a decision -- sooner rather than later -- on the relocation issue. The NHL claims Balsillie's proposal to move the team is a non-starter because Hamilton is seven miles within Toronto's territory. Baum has said his bankruptcy court would not get involved in the antitrust complaint that might follow the Coyotes relocation. Here is what I believe will happen: Before June 9, the NHL will make public that Balsillie's purchase/relocation was not approved by the required 75% of the board of governors. Baum then will dismiss Balsillie's bid and immediately put in place an auction procedure for the second week of September for the Coyotes. Balsillie will be invited to bid with the proviso that the team must remain in Phoenix. He likely will decline to do so. What next? The Coyotes will have a new owner who will pledge to remain in Phoenix providing the team attracts no fewer than an average of 14,000 fans a game and a favourable lease arrangement over 20 years, with a year-to-year renewal. Failing that, the owner will be free to move his franchise to a site predetermined by the NHL -- possibly Winnipeg or Kansas City.Knowing how important money is to many of these NHL owners, and the fact there are possibly two interested parties with deep pockets -- Balsillie, and Vancouver developer Tom Gagliardi -- they may insist on an expansion team for southern Ontario for the 2012-13 season. A democratic process will take place and, I suppose, a dollar value of $500 million US for an expansion team will be announced. Of that $500 million, $100 million will go to the Maple Leafs and $35 million will go to the Buffalo Sabres for territorial rights. Toronto, Buffalo and the remaining teams will share in the expansion fee of $365 million, giving each of them about $12 million -- cash. Toronto will ask for and be given the right to carry some of the expansion team's games on its Leafs TV network free of charge for a said period. Toronto will also ask and be given the rights to operate the building in which the new team will play in. This is not unusual. There have been arenas and/or concessions that have been managed by companies affiliated with an NHL team that has its team playing in another venue. And Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd. is expert at managing buildings. All of the aforementioned points to what I was told by three NHL commissioners -- John Ziegler, Gil Stein and Gary Bettman: "If Hamilton wants a team you best come down the aisle with Toronto on one arm and Buffalo on the other."
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Post by JETStender on Jun 2, 2009 3:11:34 GMT -5
Balsillie won't win, but Hamilton will get in, insider believesBy GABE MACALUSO Last Updated: 2nd June 2009, 3:12am What next? The Coyotes will have a new owner who will pledge to remain in Phoenix providing the team attracts no fewer than an average of 14,000 fans a game and a favourable lease arrangement over 20 years, with a year-to-year renewal. Failing that, the owner will be free to move his franchise to a site predetermined by the NHL -- possibly Winnipeg or Kansas City. The only problem I see is finding an owner willing to lose money for another season. And I cant see them staying with anything attached to attendance. They are already " over 14,000" and losing $40M.
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Post by jjhmclean on Jun 2, 2009 8:34:37 GMT -5
The Same owner will stay for one more year, much like the Jets stayed for one more year. I doubt that they will announce that until after next season though. Of all the scenarios, this one seems the most plausible to me.
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Post by Believer on Jun 2, 2009 8:51:06 GMT -5
Balsillie won't win, but Hamilton will get in, insider believesBy GABE MACALUSO Last Updated: 2nd June 2009, 3:12am With Jim Balsillie attempting to move the Phoenix Coyotes to southern Ontario, Gabe Macaluso offers an insider's thoughts on an NHL team settling in Hamilton. Macaluso headed up several attempts to bring an NHL team to Hamilton while serving as CEO of Copps Coliseum from 1989 to 2005. I can't believe the positive spin some of the news outlets are giving to Jim Balsillie's bid to buy the Phoenix Coyotes and move them to Copps Coliseum. I know one thing for sure. In listening to Judge Redfield T. Baum last week he wanted a decision -- sooner rather than later -- on the relocation issue. The NHL claims Balsillie's proposal to move the team is a non-starter because Hamilton is seven miles within Toronto's territory. Baum has said his bankruptcy court would not get involved in the antitrust complaint that might follow the Coyotes relocation. Here is what I believe will happen: Before June 9, the NHL will make public that Balsillie's purchase/relocation was not approved by the required 75% of the board of governors. Baum then will dismiss Balsillie's bid and immediately put in place an auction procedure for the second week of September for the Coyotes. Balsillie will be invited to bid with the proviso that the team must remain in Phoenix. He likely will decline to do so. What next? The Coyotes will have a new owner who will pledge to remain in Phoenix providing the team attracts no fewer than an average of 14,000 fans a game and a favourable lease arrangement over 20 years, with a year-to-year renewal. Failing that, the owner will be free to move his franchise to a site predetermined by the NHL -- possibly Winnipeg or Kansas City.Knowing how important money is to many of these NHL owners, and the fact there are possibly two interested parties with deep pockets -- Balsillie, and Vancouver developer Tom Gagliardi -- they may insist on an expansion team for southern Ontario for the 2012-13 season. A democratic process will take place and, I suppose, a dollar value of $500 million US for an expansion team will be announced. Of that $500 million, $100 million will go to the Maple Leafs and $35 million will go to the Buffalo Sabres for territorial rights. Toronto, Buffalo and the remaining teams will share in the expansion fee of $365 million, giving each of them about $12 million -- cash. Toronto will ask for and be given the right to carry some of the expansion team's games on its Leafs TV network free of charge for a said period. Toronto will also ask and be given the rights to operate the building in which the new team will play in. This is not unusual. There have been arenas and/or concessions that have been managed by companies affiliated with an NHL team that has its team playing in another venue. And Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd. is expert at managing buildings. All of the aforementioned points to what I was told by three NHL commissioners -- John Ziegler, Gil Stein and Gary Bettman: "If Hamilton wants a team you best come down the aisle with Toronto on one arm and Buffalo on the other." This is a huge story.....this guy himself tried to lure the NHL to Copps Colesium and failed..... He must know the inner workings of the NHL and what would be required..... I, along with others have stated.....the only way the NHL gets into Hamilton is with double the money Balsillie is currently offering and it will be in the form of expansion, not relocation.
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Post by WpgJets2008 on Jun 2, 2009 9:55:09 GMT -5
Money talks! And for this reason we know that the NHL won't allow a relocation into SWO. Almost anywhere else within North America would be fine, excluding existing territorial limits. But Balsillie is trying to get the second best NHL market by carpet bagging a weak team and relocating it there. Plus when you see him only offer $20 million to renovate Copps ($150 to $200 million total cost) you can see he is also trying to get a rink for essentially nothing.
That is why Balsillie will keep trying his act, because it could mean at minimum $200 million in rink improvements and $200 million is lesser expansion team costs. So the day the puck drops he would be up about $400 million if he were to turn around and sell it a day later.
Why he doesn't meet with the Leafs and agree to give them $100 million and give $50 million to the Sabres is beyond me (greed?). Because think of the PR nightmare for the NHL if both teams are in Balsillie's corner?
It's so easy to see what Balsillie is up to. Yet no one in the media has run this story??
Chris
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Post by Y2Jets on Jun 2, 2009 12:45:18 GMT -5
Well, i'd be happy with the whole sernerio a tema stayuign in phoenix with 14,000 becaus eI know they don't get that eveyr night.. and when they do there is promtions of free tickets making the attendance bigger then it is. So hopefully they stay in phoenix, because Winnipeg will be right in line for their former team, flying home.
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Post by selanne405 on Jun 2, 2009 12:50:24 GMT -5
Very interesting, who exactly is this gabe fellow? He seems quite informed on this whole thing. I guess the big thing is the 14, 000 fans which I doubt the coyote fans can pull off especially if they have another crap season, in fact does that even make sense? Lets all go spend our money watching a crappy hockey team that constantly looses so that they will stay here and we can continue to watch them loose!
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Post by flippy on Jun 2, 2009 13:35:48 GMT -5
Not sure if this is really on topic (Hamilton-related), but it occurred to me that the new border regulations could hurt the Ontarians that head south of the border to Sabres games. Will they want the headache of long lineups, passport applications, etc? As a result the Sabres' attendance could take a fair-sized hit, and the appeal of another Southern Ontario team would be that much greater.
I dunno. Just a thought.
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Post by JETStender on Jun 2, 2009 18:04:16 GMT -5
Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 2:13pm MST | Modified: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 3:29pm Coyotes actual attendance left Glendale arena a third empty Phoenix Business Journal - by Mike Sunnucks
The Phoenix Coyotes hockey team relied on ticket giveaways to help boost attendance that averaged about 11,000 per game during the 2008-09 season when just filled seats for the 41 games are counted.
That left the 17,800-seat Jobing.com Arena more than one-third empty during the Coyotes latest season in which they failed to make the National Hockey League playoffs. The number compares to the team’s reported average ticket count of about 14,900 (including giveaways and sales) and average paid ticket sales of 13,000.
Such team data is part of Canadian billionaire Jim Balsillie's application to buy the team and move it to Hamilton, Ontario. Balsillie, CEO of Blackberry maker Research in Motion, has proposed a $213 million deal.
The Coyotes are in Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization. The team has lost $316 million since moving to the Phoenix market in 1996 from Winnipeg.
The NHL and city of Glendale, which owns Jobing.com Arena, oppose moving the team to Canada and are battling Balsillie and Moyes in U.S. Bankruptcy Court.
Balsillie’s application contends that the NHL team is not financially viable in Phoenix and that the Coyotes lag behind other sports choices here.
The Coyotes attendance is well behind the average 64,100 reported by the Arizona Cardinals as well as the Phoenix Suns with 18,400 fans and Arizona Diamondbacks at 31,000 fans for the most recent seasons, according to Espn.com.
A U.S. Bankruptcy Court hearing is set for June 9 to focus on whether the team can be moved to Hamilton or must stay in Arizona. Balsillie’s offer is the only formal deal put forward for the Coyotes.
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Post by JETStender on Jun 2, 2009 18:05:59 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say we'd average "AT Least" 11,000
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Post by jjhmclean on Jun 2, 2009 18:14:26 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say we'd average "AT Least" 11,000 excuse me? THE ONLY way it will work is if there are 15000 paying fans EVERY NIGHT! Both financially AND for public image. If we only average 11000 I would consider it a failure
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Post by Y2Jets on Jun 2, 2009 18:36:55 GMT -5
Yea.. he knows that dude.. he is just giving a jab at the coyotes. 15,003 would be the perfect number we need, he is well aware of it.
He is emplying WINNIPEG could easily support 11,000 fans a game, so what is the point of them leaving Winnipeg.. type of savvy.
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Post by jjhmclean on Jun 2, 2009 18:45:41 GMT -5
yeah, got it now
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Post by The Unknown Poster on Jun 2, 2009 20:35:52 GMT -5
But remember, all the experts say MTSC is too small at 15,003, even though the Coyotes (in this article anyway) would be "required" to sell 14,000 minimum. If 14,000 is the minimum, what's the f'n problem with MTSC?
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Post by WpgJets2008 on Jun 3, 2009 9:34:04 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say we'd average "AT Least" 11,000 excuse me? THE ONLY way it will work is if there are 15000 paying fans EVERY NIGHT! Both financially AND for public image. If we only average 11000 I would consider it a failure Also don't forget in the court documents Balsillie also mentions that ticket prices are 25% under the NHL AVERAGE. Remember 3 things anytime the NHL talks attendances: 1) What is the average ticket pricing (including deals like 2 for 1's etc.) 2) What is the real paid attendance not announced? 3) How many of the seats were bought (by the club itself or the owners themselves) just to help meet revenue sharing thresholds? like what Nashville's owners openly discussed late in the season. When you take all 3 factors into account, the MTSC full of paid fans at ticket pricing like the exhibitions games, bring in a revenue that is well above NHL average. ie. the rink size doesn't hold back the team financially and many teams would kill for those numbers. If you want to see the numbers for yourself, check them out on www.myNHLincludesWinnipeg.com and go to the page called "Myth #12 Canadian Dollar too low" and click on the "Download NHL Financial Scenarios Spreadsheets Here" Chris
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Post by edog37 on Jun 3, 2009 10:54:44 GMT -5
[quote author=wpgjets2008 board=ROTJ
Why he doesn't meet with the Leafs and agree to give them $100 million and give $50 million to the Sabres is beyond me (greed?). Because think of the PR nightmare for the NHL if both teams are in Balsillie's corner? [/quote]
there is little incentive for either team to talk to JB at this time. First off, JB isn't even the owner of the team yet, so it is premature for either Buffalo or Toronto to discuss indemnification. Second, if JB gets the team, that is when Buff/Tor have leverage in indemnification talks. Now, we all know the Laffs won't be harmed, but you can bet Buffalo will cry wolf & thus seek to get maximum return on indemnification. Third, this is prime real estate for the NHL. Neither team is going to alienate their BOG members by just giving S. Ontario away Apparently, there is some honor amongst thieves....
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