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Post by selannejets on Nov 4, 2007 22:00:29 GMT -5
Interesting I just watched the video myself. It said America gave the taliban 245 million dollars of "aid" in 2000. Why did they do this when they knew back then the taliban were suppressing their people and were undemocratic? Sound like a bunch of hypocrits to me.
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Post by razorsedge on Nov 5, 2007 8:27:00 GMT -5
Yes al quaeda bombed the wtc towers but why? How many years has America been sticking their nose in the affairs of other countries? The CIA calls this blowback. When you get into countries affairs and stir the shi*t pot it is bound to blow back in your face. I would call it just simply human nature though. You do something to someone they will want to take revenge and do it right back at ya. If you want to look everything from one point of view then things will only get worse and they definitely are getting worse. America's motto has been "its either our way or the highway" for a pretty long time. And just look at things now. America is now even more vulnerable to a more severe attack now than 9/11. If things need to get better America must change their foreign policy. I suggest you look up history about America and what their foreign policies have done to the world and how much it has affected them. Here is a brief video of the history of American foreign policy. www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuiIao49Xv0 Nice video. I watched about 4 seconds of it, than I heard the song and turned it off. Like I can really take it serious. 5000 dead is justified because the American's were sticking there nose where it doesn't belong eh? You must be a Michael Moore fan. |
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Post by selannejets on Nov 5, 2007 13:20:47 GMT -5
Yes al quaeda bombed the wtc towers but why? How many years has America been sticking their nose in the affairs of other countries? The CIA calls this blowback. When you get into countries affairs and stir the shi*t pot it is bound to blow back in your face. I would call it just simply human nature though. You do something to someone they will want to take revenge and do it right back at ya. If you want to look everything from one point of view then things will only get worse and they definitely are getting worse. America's motto has been "its either our way or the highway" for a pretty long time. And just look at things now. America is now even more vulnerable to a more severe attack now than 9/11. If things need to get better America must change their foreign policy. I suggest you look up history about America and what their foreign policies have done to the world and how much it has affected them. Here is a brief video of the history of American foreign policy. www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuiIao49Xv0 Nice video. I watched about 4 seconds of it, than I heard the song and turned it off. Like I can really take it serious. 5000 dead is justified because the American's were sticking there nose where it doesn't belong eh? You must be a Michael Moore fan. Dude, i never said it was justified. All things happen for a reason. If you want to believe in george bush's neo conservative propaganda and look at everything from one narrow minded point of view then be my guest. The reason why you only watched 4 seconds of it is because you cannot face the facts about the American foreign policy. If you want to fix the world's problems you can't keep following george bush's and stephen harpers view. Did george bush's war mongering resolve anything since the 9/11 attacks? No, things got worse by 10 folds. So why keep beating the dead horse over and over? |
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Post by selannejets on Nov 5, 2007 13:35:59 GMT -5
Also if America is such a warrior for democracy and against the oppression of people why did the USA the year before the 9/11 attacks give the TALIBAN 245 millions dollars for "aid"?
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Post by Hannu Smail on Nov 5, 2007 14:20:33 GMT -5
If the military were to pull out, or never get involved in conflicts such as these......I would question why Canada has a military at all. It has nothing to do with being GWB's puppet. It's about trying to make the world a better place. I support our troops 100%. hs. Canada should police the world? How about we only use our military force to defend ourselves if another country tries to come here and attack us? That is what the military should be for. What you are saying is that Canada should be a bunch of war mongerers and go to countries to stir up sh*t like what America is doing right now because that is what a military is for  . Military should only be used for DEFENCE. So, I suppose you won't be observing Remembrance Day then? You know, because the WW1 & 2 vets were a bunch of sh*t-stirring war-mongerers and all. Should have just left well enough alone and let Europe fall to Hitler. You know, none of our business, right? |
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Post by selannejets on Nov 5, 2007 14:30:39 GMT -5
Canada should police the world? How about we only use our military force to defend ourselves if another country tries to come here and attack us? That is what the military should be for. What you are saying is that Canada should be a bunch of war mongerers and go to countries to stir up sh*t like what America is doing right now because that is what a military is for . Military should only be used for DEFENCE. So, I suppose you won't be observing Remembrance Day then? You know, because the WW1 & 2 vets were a bunch of sh*t-stirring war-mongerers and all. Should have just left well enough alone and let Europe fall to Hitler. You know, none of our business, right? Nice try on trying to put words in my mouth. Soldiers have nohing to do with war mongering. It's a holes like george bush and stephen harper that you support. Soldiers deserve the highest respect for putting their lives on line every single day. The new hitler these days is George Bush for meddling in other people's affairs and invading countries with no other reason but for oil so him and his business buddies like cheney can make their pockets fatter by sending young men and women to have themselves blown up every single day. |
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Post by Hannu Smail on Nov 5, 2007 14:41:39 GMT -5
So, I suppose you won't be observing Remembrance Day then? You know, because the WW1 & 2 vets were a bunch of sh*t-stirring war-mongerers and all. Should have just left well enough alone and let Europe fall to Hitler. You know, none of our business, right? Nice try on trying to put words in my mouth. Soldiers have nohing to do with war mongering. It's a holes like george bush and stephen harper that you support. Soldiers deserve the highest respect for putting their lives on line every single day. The new hitler these days is George Bush for meddling in other people's affairs and invading countries with no other reason but for oil so him and his business buddies like cheney can make their pockets fatter by sending young men and women to have themselves blown up every single day. I'm finding it to be a rather difficult task trying to make sense of your reply, because it doesn't really address anything I have said, so I will reiterate: The World Wars had nothing to do with oil, yet the political powers of the time decided to intervene and send our military to engage in the war. It had to do with oppressive and tyrannical maniacs attempting to dominate the world, and our government (rightly so) decided it could not stand by and watch this unfold. So do European lives all of a sudden count for more than those in the middle east? FYI, nice comment on "putting words in your mouth" - show me again where I explicitly stated I supported GWB and/or Harper? With that, I bow out of this conversation (like I did one year ago until I was recently "quoted"). hs. |
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Post by selannejets on Nov 5, 2007 14:56:39 GMT -5
Nice try on trying to put words in my mouth. Soldiers have nohing to do with war mongering. It's a holes like george bush and stephen harper that you support. Soldiers deserve the highest respect for putting their lives on line every single day. The new hitler these days is George Bush for meddling in other people's affairs and invading countries with no other reason but for oil so him and his business buddies like cheney can make their pockets fatter by sending young men and women to have themselves blown up every single day. I'm finding it to be a rather difficult task trying to make sense of your reply, because it doesn't really address anything I have said, so I will reiterate: The World Wars had nothing to do with oil, yet the political powers of the time decided to intervene and send our military to engage in the war. It had to do with oppressive and tyrannical maniacs attempting to dominate the world, and our government (rightly so) decided it could not stand by and watch this unfold. So do European lives all of a sudden count for more than those in the middle east? FYI, nice comment on "putting words in your mouth" - show me again where I explicitly stated I supported GWB and/or Harper? With that, I bow out of this conversation (like I did one year ago until I was recently "quoted"). hs. In world wars one and two america were not the oppressors. It was Hitler. With the neo conservative regime in America, they have become today's world's biggest oppressors. Back then it was a real threat that hitler would conquer the world so i would say it was justified to go in there and fight the fascists off. If you are worried that a bunch of cave dwellers living in Afghanistan will invade the western world then your obviously taking in all the lies that the neo conservative propagandist george bush and his other cronies are feeding the general public. Hitler used this exact same tactics by using propaganda so his people would support him going to wars with other nations. Yes the 9/11 attacks were devastating but it would of never happened if America was not intervening in the affairs of other nations. The CIA even knows this, they call it blow back. I suggest you watch the video that razorsedge refused to watch about the history of American foreign policy around the world. |
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Post by elf on Nov 5, 2007 19:16:40 GMT -5
Don't waste your time selannejets.
On The Ball City!
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Post by razorsedge on Nov 5, 2007 20:03:19 GMT -5
I don't know why the U.S gave the Taliban 245 million in "aid". Why don't you tell me why the U.S gave the Taliban 245 million in "aid".
I didn't really read most of your posts, just sort of skimmed it since it wasn't pretty much mostly gibberish.
Since you assume alot in your posts about me, I'll just let you know a few things about me. Number 1, I do not support the Bush admistration. I'm very much against the U.S occupying Iraq, and believe it is based around oil. I definitly don't follow his beliefs.
Anyways, so you tell me why the U.S is in Afghanistan and what purpose does it serve?
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Post by selannejets on Nov 5, 2007 20:33:43 GMT -5
I don't know why the U.S gave the Taliban 245 million in "aid". Why don't you tell me why the U.S gave the Taliban 245 million in "aid". I didn't really read most of your posts, just sort of skimmed it since it wasn't pretty much mostly gibberish. Since you assume alot in your posts about me, I'll just let you know a few things about me. Number 1, I do not support the Bush admistration. I'm very much against the U.S occupying Iraq, and believe it is based around oil. I definitly don't follow his beliefs. Anyways, so you tell me why the U.S is in Afghanistan and what purpose does it serve? If you don't want to read my posts and dismiss it as gibberish then there's no point in responding to you anymore. Everything I said was factual. If you want to ignore everything about the history of american intervension and how it brought about the 9/11 attacks then that's your problem. Your obvious ignorance led me to the impression that you were a Bush supporter. |
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Post by selannejets on Nov 5, 2007 20:37:39 GMT -5
Don't waste your time selannejets. On The Ball City!Yeh your right. |
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Post by wagner3 on Nov 5, 2007 21:44:38 GMT -5
I don't know why the U.S gave the Taliban 245 million in "aid". Why don't you tell me why the U.S gave the Taliban 245 million in "aid". I didn't really read most of your posts, just sort of skimmed it since it wasn't pretty much mostly gibberish. Since you assume alot in your posts about me, I'll just let you know a few things about me. Number 1, I do not support the Bush admistration. I'm very much against the U.S occupying Iraq, and believe it is based around oil. I definitly don't follow his beliefs. Anyways, so you tell me why the U.S is in Afghanistan and what purpose does it serve? If you don't want to read my posts and dismiss it as gibberish then there's no point in responding to you anymore. Everything I said was factual. If you want to ignore everything about the history of american intervension and how it brought about the 9/11 attacks then that's your problem. Your obvious ignorance led me to the impression that you were a Bush supporter. I thought this thread was supposed to be about honouring Canadian soldiers? Anyway: my two cents. I don't buy into any single, one-sided theory in regards to the present situtation. There are several factors at play in discussing 911, Iraq and the rest of the current conflict. reasons for american foreign policy... - Oil in the middle east attracts the attention of the major powers, but I find it hard to believe it's the major or sole reason the USA is spending a trillion dollars in Iraq. - the Israel/Palestinian conflict is probably a greater factor, especially in regards to US foreign policy and the decision to invade Iraq; see the neo-con lobby for connections and note that Saddam was sponsoring palestian terrorism agains Israel. - the military industrial lobby has an interest in WARs but this is probably not a major cause or factor. - idealist, not realists, that want to spread western style democracy and capitalism abroad - see neocons again. having said the above, there is a very real Islamic radicalist movement/threat to the west that would exist despite whatever the West, US and Israel have done. al qaeda is among the most militant of the many extremist pro-jihad groups. There are less extreme groups that preach a watered down ideology, even in the west. to give one example, there is a group called Hizb ut-Tahrir, which has branches in England and Australia. The group is publicly against terrorism, but certain associates, ex-members have been involved in terrorist plots in London in recent years. Again, this is the most moderate face of the ideology and would surely be considered a sell-out by the more extremist groups...but it is still instructive to read about their goals and ideology, which they share with more extreme groups, even if they renounce terrorism... you can read about their ideology in plain english at their own website: www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/index.php sorry to go further OT on this thread, but i just wanted to add my two cents... |
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Post by selannejets on Nov 7, 2007 17:35:05 GMT -5
Zionism is just as much to blame for world chaos as muslem extremists are. 9/11 would of not happened if America took the position to be neutral about the conflict between Israel and Palestine, but because of big lobby groups such as AIPAC the american foreign policy is in very much favor of Israel. I think there is a very basic solution to this. Follow the United States constitution properly. Muslim extremism will always be there just like extremism from all other religions but it could be tamed. Neo conservative have probably doubled the number of these extremists across the world and it will probably get worse and worse.
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Post by icecoldian on Nov 8, 2007 0:53:56 GMT -5
This is a interesting thread - And as Wagner said, Razors intentions are to honour the Canadian Soldiers currently giving their lives for our safety, security and freedom . By protecting ours, they have sacrificed their own, a truly noble act.
With that said, I would like to touch on a couple topics discussed.
I once herd a soldier (while being interviewed) make mention of how people only have the right, and freedom, to protest for peace and/or anti-war protests, because soldiers protect their freedom, and give them the right to protest. Clearly he took offence to people protesting the war, and I am 100% certain he is not the only soldier who feels that way. There have been countless debates and conflicts over this very thing - When someone opposes the war they are attacked in the media (usually on right wing stations, but I am not sure that is relevant) for not supporting the soldiers. To me, the terms “war” and “soldier” are not even close to being interchangeable.
What I mean, is that one who opposes the war, does not, NOT support the troops - they often feel that the troops are being subject to these horrible (to say the very least. I think horrible is a massive understatement) conditions unjustly. That the troops should not be forced to fight a war.
I personally believe that the war on Iraq right now is very irrelevant to the freedom of the United States of America. A bold statement that might have some backlash, but, it seems to me Iraq was in no position to launch some sort of war against the United Sates, and to date, likely wouldn’t have.
I am not sure why people hate Michael Moore. He is biased. Very biased. Its to the point where his films are hardly documentaries, and in film schools they are often referred to as editorials (though I am not sure when it became acceptable for an editorial to be biased - I guess that’s what happens in our society now. You can print whatever the Go Jets Go you want and call it “fact”). But, Michael Moore doesn’t lie. If you go to his films with a critical thinking mind, you can take a lot from his movies. Sico, in my mind, was Brilliant. His other films have a lot to offer too, its just important to remember that he is presenting one side of the argument. A documentary was originally thought of showing a situation “As is!” he shows one perspective “As is.” If we disagree with him, I still think its important to understand the opposing perspective to our own - and learn from it. Perhaps even be persuaded.
Great article post Pbonomo - Some great info in there.
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Post by razorsedge on Nov 10, 2007 10:39:28 GMT -5
Like I've said, you don't have to support the mission in Afghanistan but as a Canadian you should support our troops AND there family's. Even if that means biting your tongue a bit and not making the children and family of these soldiers feel like their lives are at risk for the wrong reasons. Moral goes a long way in how a soldier fights.
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Post by razorsedge on Dec 22, 2007 10:46:24 GMT -5
Even though I hate xmas with a passion, I want to wish all the Canadian Soldiers and there family's a merry Christmas. This is especially a tough time for our boys over seas. Being away from there loved ones is hard when there doing the job that they're doing in Afghanistan.
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Post by razorsedge on Mar 12, 2008 19:13:02 GMT -5
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Post by mcguire4 on Mar 17, 2008 14:53:33 GMT -5
we lost another today
R.I.P.
A Canadian soldier killed late Sunday while on a routine foot patrol in Afghanistan's turbulent Panjwaii District has been identified.
Sgt. Jason Boyes of 2nd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, based in Shilo, Man., was killed after he stepped on an explosive device.
The 32-year-old was born in Napanee, Ont. (earlier reports had him from Lynn Lake, Man.). He is the first Canadian to be killed while on foot patrol in nearly a year.
"We are devastated by this news. Jason loved his job, he loved the military, and his fellow soldiers loved him back. His world was his daughter, Mackenzie, his wife, Alison, his dogs and his family," Boyes' family said in a statement distributed by the military.
"This was his third tour in Afghanistan. We have always, and still do, support this mission."
Prime Minister Stephen Harper released a statement today expressing his condolences for Boyes' family.
"Sgt. Boyes was an exceptionally brave soldier who deserves the support and gratitude of all Canadians," Harper's statement said. "He made the ultimate sacrifice for his country and the people of Afghanistan."
"The Government of Canada is extremely proud of the contribution our Canadian Forces members are making in Afghanistan. The mission is a difficult one, but we are committed to bringing security and stability to this war-torn country so that future generations may enjoy the benefits of a peaceful and democratic society."
Oliver Moore, a reporter with The Globe and Mail, told CTV's Canada AM on Monday that the soldiers were in an area known as Zangabad, which is about 35 kilometres southwest of Kandahar city.
"Roadside bombs or Improvised Explosive Devices are certainly the biggest killer of Canadian soldiers here in Afghanistan," said Moore. "But for this to happen to a dismounted soldier -- a soldier on a foot patrol -- is quite rare and hasn't happened in about 10 months."
Boyes triggered the explosive device at about 8:20 p.m. He was rushed to hospital but died from his injuries.
"We have lost a brother and a fine soldier," Brig.-Gen. Guy Laroche said at a news conference in Kandahar Airfield.
"He answered the call of duty one last time in Afghanistan. We will honour his memory, his dedication, and his desire to make a difference in a country that has lost hope that one day its children will grow up to know the real sense of the words 'peace' and 'freedom.'"
Laroche said Boyes was part of the recent contingent that arrived in Afghanistan in the last few weeks.
Including Sunday's death, Canada has lost 81 military personnel in Afghanistan since 2002, along with one diplomat and a civilian aid worker. The majority of slain soldiers have died from Improvised Explosive Devices.
NATO allies like the United States transport many of their troops by helicopter, because it's considered a safer alternative to travelling across lands infested with bombs.
Laroche said foot patrols enable soldiers to closely monitor the security situation and interact with local communities.
Defence Minister Peter MacKay has said he's working with the U.S. to acquire six battlefield helicopters for operations in Afghanistan.
Last Thursday, Parliament voted 198-77 to extend the Afghan mission until December 2011, on the condition that NATO provides Canada with an additional 1,000 soldiers.
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Post by razorsedge on Mar 17, 2008 21:24:38 GMT -5
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. Military should only be used for DEFENCE. 
