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Post by The Unknown Poster on Jan 11, 2005 20:08:26 GMT -5
I'm sort of surprised and unhappy by this. Daley had said he wanted to keep him and Elfrid really turned it up in the last half of the season.
With a D-line that consists of Canada, Brown, Payton and Flemming, I was pretty jacked about that.
Sad to see that Robert Gordon is likely gone, but his value/salary ratio was a bit of a problem. He had the best hands on the team though and will probably be the star receiver for another team. Probably a bit of a youth movement.
I'd expect to see the Bombers throw some cash at a superstar free agent receiever to replace him.
But who will be out QB? Rumours persist that the Bombers are looking at some free agents...
And how about Dunigan being canned??? Khari is screwed...
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Post by Big Chris in Japan on Jan 11, 2005 22:15:32 GMT -5
It's about time they dumped Payton. He was a lazy, selfish piece of crap anyway and WAY over the hill to boot.
The Bombers are in a world of trouble right now due to the fact that this team has no plan for the future. Just more bandaids on a gaping wound. Jim Daly is the worst cop-out possible for our coaching situation and he refuses to take any chances on young players nor does he play to win. He plays to "not lose" and when you do that, you WILL lose, just like we did this year. No better or worse than a badly declining Dave Ritchie whom we started the year with last year.
We need a coach/gm tandum in the realm of Wally Bueno or what Saskatchewan has with Roy Shivers and Danny Barrett. Then we need a long term plan and must be prepared to stick to it or it will be another decade or two before the Grey Cup returns to Winnipeg. So far we don't have that.
Don't get me wrong, I think for the job he is being paid to do Lyle Bauer has done a fine job of restructuring the franchise and greatly improving it's bottom line. However, Brendan Tamman should be a player personel guy only, like he was before. Then we need people who know what they are doing at the coach and GM positions. Then we need to start rebuilding the team around young guys. Robert Gordon, Milt Steagal, Payton and Westwood are way past it and clearly cannot cut it anymore. What's more is if Martens is the QB of the future, PLAY HIM! Why did he not take a snap once we were eliminated from the playoffs? This is all on Daly because he benched all of the younger guys for that last against Calgary. Sure we won that but who cares? It didn't bring us any closer to the Grey Cup.
As for Dunnigan, he had something good going in Calgary and canning him was a huge mistake. (They had a great young defence and Khari Jones for a full year next year, that alone would have brought them a playoff spot in 2005.)
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Post by jets4ever on Jan 12, 2005 1:33:16 GMT -5
This move was long overdue.
There is still quite a bit of deadwood to be removed though.
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Post by Yar on Jan 12, 2005 2:42:12 GMT -5
hmm.....ricky ray anyone?
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Post by fan2 on Jan 12, 2005 11:05:12 GMT -5
How about a secondary? We need a couple of good corners cause we get burnt for bigs plays every game.
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Post by The Unknown Poster on Jan 12, 2005 14:24:43 GMT -5
I'd be hot if they decided on a ten year re-building phase. That is not what is needed.
We have some good young players. We have some solid vets. A smart management team will find the right pieces to the puzzle.
Kevin Glenn is a solid QB and if Tee Martin is really the future, then great - save money now and do not buy a superstar QB. Spend the money on a quality O-Line because Glenn is perfectly capible of being a starting QB.
Anyone who suggests Stegall should go is a moron. Same with Westwood. Yes, Troy is an idiot, but he is still one of the finest kickers in the CFL.
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Post by Big Chris in Japan on Jan 12, 2005 22:47:28 GMT -5
I'd be hot if they decided on a ten year re-building phase. That is not what is needed. We have some good young players. We have some solid vets. A smart management team will find the right pieces to the puzzle. Kevin Glenn is a solid QB and if Tee Martin is really the future, then great - save money now and do not buy a superstar QB. Spend the money on a quality O-Line because Glenn is perfectly capible of being a starting QB. Anyone who suggests Stegall should go is a moron. Same with Westwood. Yes, Troy is an idiot, but he is still one of the finest kickers in the CFL. Westwood has NEVER come through in the big s let alone the playoffs. (The 3 missed chipshots in the 2001 Grey Cup anyone? How about that 7 yard punt in the 2003 playoffs?) Face it the guy isn't clutch and never will be. His trash talking would be fine if he backed it up but he never does. At least Trevor Kennard was a class act on and off the field AND brought it in the big s.
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Post by Yar on Jan 13, 2005 2:00:43 GMT -5
i think westwood has been a great kicker minus the 2001 grey cup. he was the main reason for that loss. other than that, he is one our most consistent players. as for punting, he should stick to field goals. noone can compare to cameron but jon ryan is gonna be pretty darn good. i like our kicking duo. as for them releasing payton, i was a little surprised. lets just hope they released him because they got someone coming in that will be even bette than payton. maybe another tom canada?
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Post by KillerBrew on Jan 13, 2005 17:31:29 GMT -5
Westwood in my opinion is possibly one of the best kickers in the CFL. On the subject of him not being clutch, the 2001 Grey Cup comes to mind, but didn't the whole team pretty much choke in that game. He has been above average, and thats awesome for CFL...anyone remember that 55 yarder with no time left on the clock against the Riders to win the game? I sure do.
Sure he said some dumb things that I really didn't agree with...But that doesn't change my opinion of what kind of a kicker he is. He has one of the best kicking% doesn't he? He's up there in leading the league in points is he not?
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Post by Big Chris in Japan on Jan 13, 2005 21:58:03 GMT -5
Since when do individual stats mean more to us than the Grey Cup? The fact remains that westwood has never been a capable playoff performer. The sole reason why he is still here is A) he is from the city and B) BECAUSE he's been here so long. Remember, nobody ever had the glowing offensive numbers Dieter Brock had but none of it mattered because Edmonton was getting all of the Grey Cup silverware.
The Bombers have a long tradition of excellence but if we don't start clearing out the losers with the losing attitudes, we will end up like the Ottawa Rough Riders; Tradition of incompetance.
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Post by wreckage on Jan 15, 2005 10:24:28 GMT -5
Big Chris I think you are fighting a losing battle. Westwood has been a decent kicker. Punter, maybe not so, but thats not his forte. He obviously has one of the stronest legs in the CFL, if ya need someone to nail that 45-52 yarder to win it or send it into OT theres no other guy in the CFL I'd rather have attempting it. Much like Elam in the NFL. Sure he may have a choke game now and again but who doesn't? Anyone remember Gramatica earlier this season with the Buccs? And it just so happened his BAD one was a BIG GAME. What do you suggest we do swap him for McCallum?
On the Payton issue tho.... I really am suprised they let him go. Just think about how many butts he would've put in the seats. How often does a career sack record get broken? How many away is he? 3?? I'm not exact on it but even if he has an off year he should, and most likely will get it even with a coverage opted defence this season. He is definately not the player he was 3+ seasons ago, but he is still a reliable pass rusher. We just needed to work him or Canada onto the other side of the d-line. Its pretty easy to pass protect when you know the rush is comin from the QB's left, with minimal charge from the right. I would not be supirsed at all to see Calgary, who need to regain fans trust, or Ottawa, who just need a reason to put butts in the stands, sign him. That is unless he decides to end his career with a team he feels he "owes it to" like Edmonton. Elfirids still got 1-2 years left in him and he is gonna take the record. Its up to which team opts on that figure rather than "best for the performance", cause obviously he isn't a top lineman any more. But he still isn't bad either.
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Post by wreckage on Jan 15, 2005 10:29:10 GMT -5
hmm.....ricky ray anyone? Ricky's goin nowhere. Even as an NFL 3rd or 4th string he makes more than the CFL can pay him. Maybe not outright cash, but with the benefits of being closer to family, and if he does even take one gameday snap....
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Post by wreckage on Jan 15, 2005 10:49:37 GMT -5
And as for your comment towards Stegall big Chris.... I'm suprised Milt hasn't tested the NFL waters by now. I mean honestly does Boerigter belong there anymore than Stegall?
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Post by Yar on Jan 15, 2005 23:08:21 GMT -5
stegall did test nfl waters for a few years.
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Post by dreamcatcher on Jan 18, 2005 12:05:41 GMT -5
Hmmm...interesting posts. First, the Bombers are not looking for a QB. They believe that the group of Glenn, Tee and Jackson can do the job. Any of the three actually could be a starter. Jackson is 29, Glenn is 26, and Tee is 25. Tee Martin is an excellent QB, that has yet, however, to prove himself in the CFL. Regarding the secondary, which was obviously a weakness last year, without continuity (which we were lacking last year) it is very difficult to properly gauge the secondary.
Certainly, Lysack, Ricky Bell and hopefully Tim Carter, will all start next year. Of the 3, Tim is questionable, because of his penchant for continued elbow problems. If he checks out, then they have several options for the last starting position, and dime. R.Covington, J.Coleman, M.Fitzgerald, Eric Carter are just a few, although we had many DB'S/CB'S in camp ast year. Free agency this year, could easily nab us two starters, and relegate a couple of these guys to the PR. The D-Line will gel nicely this year, since Brown and Fleming will have a full year together, and Canada will be prepared for the 20 games. I am quite sure that many dont like the decision to drop Elfrid, but frankly, with the money he wanted coupled with his age, I am sure the Blue feel they can bring in 4 guys, and one of them will be a Canada Clone.
To me, the O-Line needs someone besides Moe to start at centre, and Jermese Jones at LT isn't the answer either. With a little luck, we could pick up a couple of starting NI in free agency for these positions, and perhaps a starting receiver as well. The position to me of concern is at Linebacker, since we still have McGriggs back there. I dont have a problem with him, but he's getting up there. Fortunately, we likely have Tony Ortiz in camp next year, with Ortega returning and McKinlay as a promising young backer. Kelly will also be back. To me, the solution would be a mix of these fellows, with John Grace in the middle. Overall, I think Taman has a decent plan in place, and I am confident that he will address our weaknesses.
I expect he'll likely sign a DB, a O-Lineman, LB, and Receiver during free agency. 4 guys sounds about right for what Brendan does every year. Other spots will be filled thru U.S cuts and players, becasue you can always find a gem out there, and it is cheaper. Also, traditionally, we wait for cut down days from our fellow CFL rosters, and NFL camp cut down as well.
Regarding Coaches, I believe strongly that Daley is an excellent coach. To me, for one to say he isn't is a lack of football knowledge. In the second half of the season, under very adverse conditions, he brought this group together, got the O-Line to play better than they had all year, got Milt back on track, and made some personnel decisions that in some cases were not popular, but allowed him to get a feel for this team, which was not his from day #1, and was surrounded by assistant coaches that were loyal to Ritchie. Now, he is taking his time to replace the coaching staff with people and personalities that HE can work with, and that have good, strong FOOTBALL backgrounds.
I trust this will be a good year for Bomber fans. Taman knows what needs to be done. So does Daley, and Taman doesn't have Ritchie over his shoulder anymore.
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Post by Yar on Jan 19, 2005 2:43:53 GMT -5
i hope you're right dreamcatcher. i wasnt very impressed with daley's 'lack of balls' plays. how many times did we march down the field only to kick a field goal or punt it away when we were 3rd and 1. with regimbald back there, hopefully that will all change. also, i have also been saying that we should really try to sign john grace. he would be a great pick up for us or maybe sanchez from montreal or even copeland. either way, it should be an interesting off-season.
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Post by MOC on Jan 19, 2005 15:08:01 GMT -5
ahem* 3rd and 1
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Post by Yar on Jan 19, 2005 20:58:03 GMT -5
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Post by bigchris on Jan 20, 2005 23:05:48 GMT -5
i hope you're right dreamcatcher. i wasnt very impressed with daley's 'lack of balls' plays. how many times did we march down the field only to kick a field goal or punt it away when we were 3rd and 1. with regimbald back there, hopefully that will all change. also, i have also been saying that we should really try to sign john grace. he would be a great pick up for us or maybe sanchez from montreal or even copeland. either way, it should be an interesting off-season. Exactly! This is why keeping Daley on is such a copout on the part of the Blue. When were are in a MUST WIN situation, do I trust a man who just wants to "not lose" or someone who wants to WIN? This is what happened against Hamilton at home, with a playoff spot hanging in the balance and Daley refused to go for it at all even on the goal line and guess what? We lost, so long playoffs and so long Grey Cup. The Bombers need to clean house because the current lineup is chalk full of losers on the field and on the coaching staff. When you read the Bombers 60th anniversary book, (the one with the blue leather cover,) the one thing that is talked about at length throughout the book is the Bombers' tradition of greatness and of course, the Grey Cup being the be all and end all. Exactly how it is in Edmonton and the Stanley Cup to Montreal. Look at us now, happy with a losing team that doesn't leave it on the field. Heck, the fans weren't even mad when Troy Westwood cost us the 2001 Grey Cup and acted like he could care less afterward. (Someone mentioned Fleming but I will take Fleming's emotion over Westwood's lack of passion and overblown ego any day of the week.) The bottom line is he is paid specifically to make those kicks and he proved he is not capable of doing that when it matters, in the Grey Cup gaime. It has been 15 years since the Grey Cup went to the Blue and Gold and it will be even longer if the club doesn't get it's act together.
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Post by jetblood on Feb 13, 2005 17:47:59 GMT -5
Its the right move to get rid of Payton I would have liked him to stick around to get the sac's record but unfortunitely all good things must come to an end.
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