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Post by joelzillmanwpg on Feb 22, 2005 15:54:39 GMT -5
I stated mainly that 2 or 3 are of the most concern. These teams are losing money due to less than satisfactory management and the lousy economic model from the last CBA. I would say there are more than 2 or 3 teams that we should be concerned about. Two teams in Florida? Anaheim? There is no growth potential for the city of Phoenix in terms of hockey. It is the fastest-growing market in the US, has some of the wealthiest citizens in North america, and has eclipsed Montreal in population. Yet, the franchise continues to strugle after 9 years. Calgary's fans stuck by a less than mediocre team that failed to make the playoffs for 7 straight seasons. They never fell below 88% capacity in a season. That's quite impressive. With that logic, the Jets should have never had an NHL team. I doubt it. The neilson ratings are pretty accurate, and constantly being trounced by Poker and Monster Truck does not bold well for the sport.
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Post by vivianmb on Feb 22, 2005 23:40:53 GMT -5
phoenix was and is a disaster!!!!if a team has to be "grown"and marketed to death,than that market doesnt deserve a team.there are people in these poor markets(nashville,carolina,miami,phoenix)that have caught the hockey bug.but thats a testament to what a great game hockey is, not the market itself.and those fans are in the minority,big time.i'm sorry Paul, i cant agree withyou on this one.phoenix,carolina,miami,and nashville are not good markets.
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Post by Pitbull on Feb 25, 2005 2:01:46 GMT -5
Actually, both hockey and basketball were invented by Canadians.
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Post by Paul on Feb 25, 2005 3:37:25 GMT -5
I appreciate the feedback, guys. I'll respond to some key statements...
I without question agree that if Mario Lemieux doesn't get the new arena for the Penguins, it's a safe bet that team will leave Pittsburgh. Should that be the case, it is very possible they'd become a frontrunner to re-locate to Winnipeg.
I appreciate you understanding my point of view, jamiebez. I also understand JoelZillman's viewpoint as well. I agree that the jury is still out on Phoenix regarding its long-term future as a hockey city. Because of my familiarity and that I know about the details of that city's sports landscape, that is why I am confident in the Coyotes' future in Phoenix. I absolute believe the same JoelZillman said where if the fan support sags with the new arena and a winning team under a favorable new CBA with #99 running the show, then yes, it would be safe to say it wouldn't be a success. But until then, I suggest we wait a couple more years before declaring Phoenix a mistake and recommend relocation.
vivianmb, I agree that markets that need heavy promotion and marketing to build any fan base isn't right for a hockey team. I don't believe Phoenix ever needed that like Raleigh or Nashville (which is why those two cities I target most for inappropriate NHL markets). Phoenix sports fans are familiar with the sport unlike Predators fans that needed a "Hockey 101" guide at the games.
Remember that NHL has slowly become unwatchable for the casual fan. It's a sad state of affairs for the NHL as a whole with the television audience. This is the case on both sides of the border, but much more a concern in the United States than in Canada.
Yes, Dr. Naismith is a native Canadian. However, the first basketball game ever played was in Springfield, Massachusetts (the home of the Basketball Hall of Fame). Therefore, it's birthplace is in the United States even though the inventor is Canadian.
Anyway, I don't expect everyone to agree with my point of view on this issue, especially from Canadians who are more likely to see it differently than I do. While your opinions are well-respected, I hope that you understand where I come from. With the new CBA to be worked out, we'll have to wait and see how it impacts especially the Sun Belt teams we seem to question and whether they'll survive and later do better than they have.
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Post by hawker14 on Feb 25, 2005 20:21:12 GMT -5
paul your thoughts are extremely valid and well thought out.
however, in my experience having taken a nhl road trip with my brother through the States, the passion amongst the fans in sun belt cities definitely takes a backseat to canadian and northern US teams. actually it's not even in the truck bed.
i guess my question is how much time does it take for these markets to succeed ? whether winnipeg is in the nhl or not, these teams imo will never be viable until someone invents outdoor ice rinks in plus 30C weather
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Post by Paul on Feb 26, 2005 17:11:57 GMT -5
Hey, hawker14.
I absolute agree with that statement. If it wasn't, then nobody would be upset at what we've seen.
Depending on the market, about 5-10 years. For Phoenix, no more than a decade. Why I say this is for the circumstances they've endured and what minor setbacks they are now dealing with (last season's horrifying second half and the current lockout to break momentum of new brand identity, new arena and last summer's personnel improvement).
If places like Raleigh and Nashville do not see an immediate recovery next season given the improvements to the NHL game (with the new rules) and a friendier CBA, say buh-bye to them. Sadly, the same for the Florida Panthers (a young team expected to improve). Atlanta's future? Within the next two years if we don't see a change for the better with their two cornerstones (Dany Heatley and Ilya Kovalchuk) helping the Thrashers finally earn their first playoff berth.
When I've watched Rangers road games on cable television, I do notice some empty seats in relatively new to brand-new arenas. As recently as two years ago, the Panthers would sell out their games against a conference rival such as the Rangers (with a contingent for the away team as well). Since then, I've noticed the difference and unfortunately partly to blame is their poor on-ice performance. Same for Anaheim (outside 2003) and Atlanta. Some may conclude that Sun Belt hockey fans are fairweather. Understood. But, that has to change where there is a more entertaining product even if the team is mediocre and it will still bring out their fans. That's the challenge the NHL as a whole faces today.
LOL, go an hour or so northeast of Phoenix and you'll find snow! But yes, in comparison to southern Canada and the northern United States cities, you're right. They certainly won't be viable as those areas are. I believe a true hockey hotbed must have the snow and the cold! We'll see after the lockout ends and we're one year into the new CBA. After that, we'll get a real idea of which cities won't be worth keeping around for the NHL. Keep an eye on Pittsburgh, despite it being in the northeastern U.S., as their arena situation draws to a conclusion (new arena or no arena coming).
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