|
|
Post by pank on Aug 6, 2011 19:09:10 GMT -5
Believe it or not, there was a time when the Expos were the envy of baseball-they had consistently great teams (that, if were playing today with 4 teams qualifying would have routinely made the playoffs), had excellent support, and a great structure in place.
They routinely pumped out great players and management (including a couple of hall of famers and couple of guys who could be there). They had built a dynamic, young team for 1994. It looked like the hope was to ride the team to the World Series and use that momentum to build a new stadium, which would have enabled them to keep Walker, Wetteland, Grissom, etc.
That strike was the first nail...Brochu's inability to build Labatt Park was another...the fans still kind of hung around, but you could tell by that point interest was dwindling. Loria came aboard with false promises-but the weird three team ownership trade, which was obviously orchestrated to kill baseball in Montreal was the final blow. The fans there put up with years of lies, deceit, and misfortune. I wouldn't blame them for slowly drifting away.
The stadium was garbage too-Winnipeg Arena wasn't packed every night-a lot of it had to do with the terrible sightlines and the overall quality-Olympic Stadium was just as bad for baseball.
A new stadium, an capable ownership group and a team that could be relocated may just mean a return to the bigs for Montreal (sounds kind of familiar).
I should add: even as late as 2003, when the Expos were fighting for the wild card, fans started coming back out-there were some big crowds for a few late August sets against Philly and Florida. Even though they had a chance, MLB refused to allow September callups, which was just another of the ridiculous misfortunes the fans put up with.
I really can't believe some of the ignorance on here-especially considering the way naysayers were attacked here (justly IMO). But still, do some research before taking shots at the Expos-the story is a little more than the smaller crowds towards 2004.
|
|
|
|
Post by mcguire4 on Aug 6, 2011 22:52:33 GMT -5
Montreal has a rich baseball history and it certainly could house an MLB team again.
i wasnt aware though that there was the will right now to do it.
i would love to see the Expos back!
|
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2011 0:59:16 GMT -5
Agreed. This is a stupid idea. The Expos were a failure and it wasn't just because of the ownership and horrible stadium. In only 8 of the Expos 37 season were they above the NL average in attendance. Montreal is a Canadians town period. To return any ownership group would want a ton of taxpayer $$$ for a new stadium. This would be a complete waste of money. This is as stupid of an idea as putting hockey in Glendale. If Quebec goes through with this they might as well hire the Glendale city council and mayor to run the government. Any taxpayer dollars should go towards a Quebec City arena for a sport people would get enjoyment out of. Besides unlike hockey there is NOT a big list of struggling teams willing to relocate. The only teams in baseball that are in trouble are the Oakland A's and Tampa Bay Rays. However Tampa has a lease with St. Petersburg until 2027. The stalemate in Tampa is that the Rays owners wants a new stadium in Tampa Bay and the St.Pete mayor won't let him out of the lease. The St. Pete mayor would build the Rays a new stadium for the team but only in St.Pete or Pinalles county. In Oakland the holdup over a new stadium is over territory rights the San Jose. The San Francisco Giants hold territory rights to San Jose and won't let the Giants move there. Selig is trying to work something out. If approved Lew Wolfe the A's owner would privately finance the stadium. Even these 2 teams moving are long shots. And baseball will not expand. The last thing they want are 2 more small markets in a sport with no salary cap. Selig is on record my times saying expansion is off the table. Aren't the Nationals struggling too? Not really. Washington hasn't had a winning team yet since they have moved to Washington yet they are 16th in franchise value. chicago.sbnation.com/chicago-cubs/2011/3/23/2068481/forbes-mlb-team-valuations-cubs-fourth-white-sox-10thThey have a very nice park, still get over 20,000 a game unlike Montreal and they do have a very good young team. Once Bryce Harper is called up in a year and Steven Strausberg comes back they will be good. They'd be doing even better financially and attendance wise if MLB hadn't run them into the ground. Also Nationals Park is really built for the super rich. That's why with only 22,000 or so a game they can still be 16th in franchise value. Read the writeup on Nationals Park and what a $$$ sucking machine it is. espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/13022/jim-caple-rates-nationals-park |
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2011 1:08:15 GMT -5
Alot of u guys sound like the nay-sayers when we were believer's in the jets coming back. I say lets get behind anything canadian.. I'm not a baseball fan but some more attention in canada is never a bad thing. Big difference between the Jets,Nordiques and Expos. The difference is that hockey is a religion in Winnipeg and Quebec City and all of Canada. The only reason it failed was because Winnipeg Arena and the Colisee were badly outdated. Once the new arena in Winnipeg came on line hockey rightfully returned and it will do the same in Quebec City. Well I'm not Canadian but i do get behind Canadian stuff that makes sense. And what makes sense is a new arena in Quebec City for the return of the Nordiques. To make the Nordiques return this will cost taxpayer$$$$. No way does Quebec pay for a new arena and baseball stadium. And again you have the problem in baseball of 29 of the 30 teams locked into place. Hockey is different due to all the crappy sun belt teams. |
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2011 1:17:00 GMT -5
Agreed. This is a stupid idea. The Expos were a failure and it wasn't just because of the ownership and horrible stadium. In only 8 of the Expos 37 season were they above the NL average in attendance. The Jets were above the NHL average attendance in exactly 0 of their 19 NHL seasons. What's your point? There were as many complex reasons for the Expos failure as there were for the Jets. You sound like one of the ignorant Peg bashers circa 2006. I would be 100% behind this. I am not really a baseball fan but when I paid attention I always cheered for the Expos. My point is there is no interest. Its the same thing as hockey in Atlanta. The Jets and Nordiques were different than the Expos. Yes the attendance was down but that's only because of the obstructed seats in the upper deck at Winnipeg Arena. If the MTS Centre was around then Jets never would have left. Yes Olympic Stadium sucked but there were no obstructed views like the Winnipeg Arena upper deck. Even with a new stadium no one would have came. When the Jets did leave look at all the big rallies and people breaking open there piggy banks trying desperately trying to save them. Look at all the tears on the old Utube videos. When the Jets and Nordiques left it was treated as Canadian national tragedy. And rightfully so. Was there remotely anything similar when the Expos left? Hell no. People yawned and bought there Canadian tickets/gear. The sad truth is no one cared about the Expos. |
|
|
|
Post by Charon2000 on Aug 7, 2011 1:27:07 GMT -5
Nobody cared in the end, after the progression of BS that ocurred in final few years of the team's existence.
The Expos wouldn't have survived in Montreal for 35 years if nobody cared.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2011 1:34:15 GMT -5
I kinda disagree that Montreal can't be a good baseball city. Things were rough at the end but they weren't always that way. Remember, the team was in Montreal since 1969 – that's 35 years. I saw a lot of games in Montreal where the crowds were in the 27,000-30,000 range. Nothing wrong with that. I'm convinced that if the new downtown park had been built and if they had had an owner who cared about the fans and the city instead of just himself, the Expos would still be in Montreal. The final years of the Expos were one disappointment after another for the fans... a strike that ended a likely World Series run... a stellar team that got dismantled... the hopes of a beautiful downtown stadium that got yanked out from under their feet... an owner with selfish intentions... the Expos basically became a farm system for the rest of the league. Would you pay to see games under those circumstances? I'm not so sure I would have. Look what happened with the Alouettes when solid ownership (with a commitment to winning) and a proper sized stadium were introduced. Attendance went from abysmal to years of sellouts. I think the biggest challenges to Montreal are that the failure was so miserable near the end (that is gonna really stick in people's minds) and that Montreal is not viewed as a traditional market among those who are involved with "America's Pastime." Having said that, I think the keys to a future franchise in Montreal are the same as for any other market in any sports league: 1) Solid ownership 2) Demonstration of a sufficient fan base 3) A properly-sized facility capable of generating necessary revenue 4) Corporate support IF those criteria ever materialize, then why not? it may not happen tomorrow, but down the road... you never know. Good luck with the site, Conky! Only 6 times in 35 years were they above the NL average. Only 10 times did they average over 20,000 people a game. For the entire Expos history they averaged only 17,264 people. The NL average in this time was 23,221. Even the supporters of this admit due to poor interest at best Montreal will be a small market team like Cleveland,Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Kansas City. None of these teams are able to keep their talent just like the Expos of old. Unlike hockey baseball has no salary cap and never will due to the strong union. A big part of the reason the NHL came back to Winnipeg other than the MTS Centre was a salary cap. Whats going to happen when the new Expos get a CC Sabethia,Manny Ramirez,Barry Bonds, Jim Thome, etc? They will have to trade them before they hit free agency or let them go as free agents just like Cleveland,Kansas City and Pittsburgh do. So it will be the same old thing. How long will they keep interest in a hockey mad town when they will be run like a farm team just like old times? |
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2011 1:39:46 GMT -5
Nobody cared in the end, after the progression of BS that ocurred in final few years of the team's existence. The Expos wouldn't have survived in Montreal for 35 years if nobody cared. The reason they survived so long is because baseball wasn't as popular everywhere in the early Expos years so it masked the Expos low attendance. Once baseball really took off in the states it made it more obvious Montreal wasn't capable of hosting MLB. Look at how the NL averages goes up. The strike was just an excuse. Other teams were hurt by the strike too and there fans didn't give up on them. The Chicago White Sox had just as good a shot as the expos that year and so did Cleveland. They didn't loose there teams. |
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2011 3:19:43 GMT -5
All you guys sound like Go Jets Go-hole naysayers who said the jets would never come back. Nobody learnd anything over the past 15 years? Big difference between us and them. They had no facts to back up anything. All they could say is Winnipeg/the MTS centre was too small blah blah blah. Here are the differences between the Jets and Expos 1. Fan support-The reason the Jets left wasn't because of the fans. It was because of the arena and lack of a hard cap. Expos fans just gave up. Even when the Jets left, fans fought to the very bitter end to keep them. Another difference between the Expos fans and Jets fans is the Jets fans never made excuses for why the Jets failed and worked to correct what went wrong the 1st time. Jets fans realized they needed a new arena,an owner and that if the team came back they knew they had to buy all the tickets. The Expos fans sit and wine about conspiracy theories like Bud Selig is plotting against me, it was all the strikes fault when there were many other teams that had a good shot that year, Jeff Lurie is a bad guy blah blah blah. Plenty of teams have bad owners or have bad things happen. For example the Chicago White Sox also had the strike ruin the 1994 season when they were in 1st in the Central, in 1997 the owner traded away 3 star pitchers at the trade deadline for minor leaguers despite being 3 games out of 1st place. He said at the time "anyone who thinks we can catch Cleveland is crazy". Attendance went down but fans didn't 100% quit on the team like Expos fans did. If the Expos came back support would be mediocre and the 1st time a star left or there was a bad trade fans would quit completely again. 2.There were or could be many teams available in the NHL due to the sun belt experiment. Phoenix and Atlanta were jokes, others that could fail in the future are Florida, Columbus, New York Islanders, and maybe a Carolina,Tampa Bay or Nashville although i think the last 3 will make it. In MLB there is only 2 teams in enough financial trouble to move and one of them is locked into a lease until 2027. The other(Oakland) is owned by a California developer who wants to go to San Jose. He will fund the stadium himself. The only holdup is over territory rights that the Giants hold to South Bay. Other than that it is a go. He is already on record saying he will not move the team or threaten to move. www.fieldofschemes.com/news/archives/2011/08/4635_wolff_still_wai.html#commentsRead the 6 part interview with him if you want. The other 28 teams are 100% safe. Also Bud Selig is on record saying no expansion. MLB is taped out. When the Expos moved to DC that was the last good market left. Teams like Oakland and Tampa don't even threaten to move to get a new stadium because they would be laughed at because the relocation "contenders" are a joke. That includes not just Montreal but Portland,San Antonio, Charlotte, Las Vegas etc. Here is a great great article on the business of MLB. This is written by Maury Brown a former Portland baseball supporter. He saw the light and realizes why there will be no relocation or expansion www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?Itemid=41&id=1703&option=com_content&task=view3.When the NHL left there was no salary cap. There is now a hard cap. In baseball there was never a cap and never will be a cap due to the strong union. Its just not the old Expos teams that were or are dismantled. All small market teams are dismantled in MLB today. Look at what happen to the 2007 Cleveland Indians for example. Look at how San Diego lost Adrian Gonzalez and Jake Peavy or how Kansas City always has a minor league team. Think Milwaukee is going to keep Prince Fielder as a free agent this winter?? Even with a new stadium the Expos would be like these teams. How are they going to build a fan base when all the stars leave in a hockey town? The 1st time the star player goes to the Yankees fans will say "same old Expos, this sucks i give up, time to buy my Canadian tickets" 4. If by some miracle MLB would return where will the money for a new stadium come from? Being a small market team no way would ownership pay for it. It would have to be the government. Is there enough money for both a new arena in Quebec City and Expos stadium? Most likely not. If not is it worth giving up a new arena is Quebec City for the return of a team no one will support vs a team that would be sold out? 5. Another thing to consider is the Toronto Blue Jays are the 4th less valuable team in baseball. chicago.sbnation.com/chicago-cubs/2011/3/23/2068481/forbes-mlb-team-valuations-cubs-fourth-white-sox-10thThe only teams below them are the 2 teams with stadium problems(Tampa,Oakland) and Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is a small market team that was mis run for a long time. They hold the pro sports record with 18 straight losing seasons. Toronto has 5.7 million people. Montreal has 3.8 million. Baseball is more popular in Toronto. Given the trouble Toronto has what type of trouble will the new Expos have?? I love Canada even though I'm American so i don't mean to bash Canada but pro sports other than hockey(NFL,NBA,MLB) don't work outside of Toronto. Thats a cold hard fact. Look at what happen to the Vancouver Grizzlies. Time to forget this foolishness and get that Quebec City arena built to make it 8!! |
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2011 5:29:33 GMT -5
Here is a great article from the Ottawa Citizen on how Montreal is not ready for baseballs return. The biggest difference between Winnipegs return and Montreal's? Yep you guessed it NO SALARY CAP. Even the "Pro Montreal Study" admits that at best Montreal would have a bottom 3rd payroll ala Kansas City/Pittsburgh and that this won't work without a salary cap. www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/Montreal+ripe+return+baseball/5075967/story.htmlMontreal not ripe for return of baseball By Wayne Scanlan, Ottawa Citizen July 9, 2011 Now that the Jets have returned to their rightful home in Winnipeg, it's tempting to believe the sports universe is unfolding as it should. With Winnipeg back in the NHL and visions of Teemu Selanne's 76-goal rookie season dancing in our heads, who doesn't daydream about the Battle of Quebec rejoined, as the Nordiques are reborn in a new Colisée, and some reincarnation of the Stastny line wreaks havoc on the storied Montreal Canadiens? The righteous realignment doesn't stop there, of course. The wheels are already turning on the Ottawa Rough Riders' return to the CFL (one of these years), in a rebuilt Lansdowne Park. As bad as the Riders were in the mid-1990s, and as regrettable as was the short-lived Renegades era, the CFL is a better place with a team in the nation's capital. At its worst, with the south-side stands wasting away from neglect, the canal-side Ottawa location was one of the prettiest in the league. Why, even the poor old Carleton Ravens are getting their CIS football team back (who doesn't miss all the Panda Game puking?), likely by 2013. All of these nostalgic relaunches have sports fans of the 1980s and '90s thinking big, but still too sensitive, too wary to put a name to our true thoughts, knowing it's way too soon to dream the impossible dream. That is, until Friday morning, when the helpful folks at the Conference Board of Canada did it for us. "Montreal has the market to support major league baseball," notes the conference board in its latest sports business missive. NOOOOooooooooo!!! Please don't go there. Seeing this report, Arpon Basu, a Montreal-based web reporter for CTV and NHL. com put it best on Twitter: "Salt, meet wound."Exactly. Never mind that seven years have passed since the Expos, nos amours, played their last game in Montreal. The wounds are still fresh, and any suggestion that Major League Baseball might one day mosey on back feels like salt in those wounds - a kick to the stomach for those who grew up on those first Expos games at Jarry Park and then the Big O. It's not that the conference board doesn't get it. Right in the headline, it notes that the "league conditions are not right" for a return to Montreal.Yes, league conditions along with untold scars and baggage from the Jeffrey Loria years and the impact of that 1994 strike on the Expos and their fans. As the conference board points out, the cold, hard market forces are not as grim as one might think when considering Montreal as a big-league town. With a metro population of 3.8 million people, Montreal is large enough to support an MLB franchise. Is is wealthy enough? While Montreal did not become the super city imagined in the 1960s when Expo 67 brought the world to its door, 98 of Canada's largest 800 corporations are located in Montreal, third on the nation's corporate list behind Toronto and Calgary. "If a media conglomerate were to bring a team to Montreal, the synergy could work," the conference board suggests in the report. "With a regular-season schedule of 162 games, a team in Montreal would provide great TV and radio content. The number of sports specialty channels continues to rise, and along with them the demand for content. An MLB team in Montreal would be highly appealing for the right media group. Such a group could be a competitor to Rogers, which owns the Toronto Blue Jays." Unfortunately, the truth about baseball finances gets in the way of that happy scenario. The report doesn't miss the harsh reality that the playing field in the MLB is far from level, despite the boost a Canadian market would get from a dollar above par. Sadly, as well situated and relatively flush as the Toronto Blue Jays are, they can't compete against a New York Yankees payroll of $196.8 million U.S. or the Philadelphia Phillies at $173 mil or the Boston Red Sox at $160 mil.Maybe if Expos fans hadn't already suffered through the loss of their best players because they couldn't afford to keep them, and maybe if baseball had a salary cap that bridged the $161,000,000 difference between the player expenses of the Yankees versus the Kansas City Royals (payroll $35.7 million), then maybe fans could dream about driving to Montreal to take in a major-league game in a new open-air park (another issue). For now, we'll keep our tricoloured Expos caps in the souvenir box, and count the days to the Jets first game of the NHL season. Read previous columns by Wayne Scanlan at ottawacitizen.com. He can be reached at wscanlan@ottawacitizen.com. |
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2011 5:40:09 GMT -5
More on why baseball isn't coming back www.theprovince.com/sports/football/bc-lions/Whatever+stats+baseball+coming+back+Montreal/5094834/story.htmlWhatever the stats, baseball isn't coming back to Montreal This just in from the Department of Unverifiable Hypotheses: The Conference Board of Canada thinks Montreal could support a major-league baseball team. Fans may want to hold off, however, on buying peanuts and Cracker Jack - because baseball is not coming back. The Conference Board report, by Glen Hodgson and Mario Lefebvre, says Montreal is large enough and wealthy enough to support a baseball franchise. The city's corporate presence and a strong Canadian dollar are other factors boosting baseball's viability. The Conference Board is Canada's pre-eminent non-partisan research organization. Its study cited: The minimum population for a baseball city is 2.5 million ( hockey, the Board suggests, requires 800,000; hello, Quebec City). The 514 and 450 area codes are home to more than 3.8 million. •Montreal ranks eighth among Canadian cities in per-capita disposal income. But we are inclined to spend our hard-earned money on entertainment, bolstering Montreal's rep as the country's No. 1 party town. •Montreal is home to 98 of Canada's 800 largest corporations, ranking the city third behind Toronto and Calgary. •One shiny loonie will get you a George Washington $1 and a few Lincoln pennies. When the Expos breathed their last, to an average attendance of 9,241 mourners in 2004, the Canadian dollar was worth 77 cents U.S. This is an important factor (just ask a smiling Geoff Molson) when travel expenses and player salaries are paid in the currency of a country that is lurching its way toward default. That's the good-news part of the Conference Board study: Montreal has enough warm fannies to fill the seats of a ballpark and enough loose change to keep the turnstiles clicking and the champagne flutes clinking in corporate boxes. The bad news is the structure of major-league baseball, a woefully unlevel playing field dominated by a few wealthy franchises, such as the New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox and Philadelphia Phillies.As is the case in England's Premiership and professional soccer leagues in Italy and Spain, a team that can't compete with the payrolls of the big guys has no hope of winning a championship. Montreal isn't a city like Chicago, where the roots of major-league baseball run deep and futility is a leitmotif passed down through generations: "Let's go to Wrigley Field, son, where you can watch the Cubs suck, just like your grandfather did."
That kind of nostalgia doesn't fly in Montreal.Spoiled rotten by the success of the Canadiens in their glory years, this city's sports fans love their teams, win or tie:
"Let's go to the Bell Centre, son, where we can cheer Carey Price like your grandfather did for Jacques Plante. But we'll boo if Price loses 1-0."When the Conference Board baseball study was posted to Facebook, it drew the predictable demonization of post-Charles Bronfman Expos ownership. But there was also this comment from David McGimpsey, author, teacher and quite possibly the city's most astute baseball analyst: " Montreal Expos fans are great with patriotic and sentimental remembrance but were not so hot when it came to just going to ball games," McGimpsey wrote. " I think the failure of ownership here was part of a rational reading of market: the Expos couldn't even maintain consistent advertising interest, couldn't attract middle class families to follow the game, etc." It would have been a pretty blind business group who looked into the fan base of Montreal and thought 'Gold!' " I avoided the late rush by falling out of love with Nos Amours and with baseball in general 10 years before the Expos blew town. The game was not suited to my rapidly diminishing attention span (a wit once observed if baseball were any slower, it would be farming), and I was alienated by geeks poring over stats like Talmudic scholars. But there's something about a heat wave that makes you wish you could be sipping a cold one in the bleachers. In the absence of anything remotely alluring on TV Monday night, I watched the Home Run Derby that's part of major league baseball's All-Star Game festivities. Hearing the distinctive thock! of hickory striking horsehide, it was possible to imagine baseballs soaring into the night sky at the kind of cozy, downtown ballpark that Red Sox and Cubs fans are privileged to enjoy. It's a long time between hockey games in Montreal. Too bad that void is unlikely to be filled any time soon. |
|
xman
Prime Member
Posts: 89
|
Post by xman on Aug 7, 2011 6:50:57 GMT -5
They said the same thing about major league hockey in Winnipeg.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2011 7:25:02 GMT -5
They said the same thing about major league hockey in Winnipeg. Yes but that was completely different. In the end the numbers added up. A child could see the numbers added up. For baseball in Montreal they don't. Hockey is a religion in all of Canada and has a cap. Baseball is not popular and has no cap. Its like saying Atlanta is a great hockey town since its a great college/nascar town. The biggest city/financial giant Toronto is 27th in MLB franchise value and is basically a small market despite being the 10th biggest market in the league. Montreal would be 16th and has a lot less interest than Toronto. You really think fans will follow a team that competes only once in a great while at best then is broken up and has to rebuild for many years only to repeat the same process again indefinitely? Do you really think Montreal could even outperform Toronto financially? Do you think there would be as much Jets fever if as soon as they move to Winnipeg they were getting rid of Andrew Ladd and Bufflyn because they couldn't afford them? |
|
|
|
Post by killalll on Aug 7, 2011 12:17:55 GMT -5
Yes how dare we try to expand a sport beyond percived boundries! What was i thinking?
Xenophobes
|
|
|
|
Post by Conky on Aug 7, 2011 14:00:59 GMT -5
By the way, ExposNation isn't my website, I'm just spreading the news. And too bad this website has to close tomorrow, this would have been an excellent debate.
|
|
|
|
Post by jpjets15 on Aug 7, 2011 19:03:25 GMT -5
Baseball does not work in Montreal. Not one bit. It worked in Montreal, and it can. Many factors led to their departure. Firstly, the stadium. I, for one, had the experience of watching an Expo game in the Big O. It is an absolutely AWFUL venue (especially for a baseball game). Secondly, they got screwed over when the team was 1st place in the middle of the season when they cancelled the rest of the season due to the lockout. Thirdly, the fanbase got even more screwed over when all the stars kept getting traded away. If you look around the league, you could make an all-star team with all the former Expo players that got spattered around the league. |
|
|
|
Post by allthisgold on Aug 7, 2011 20:42:27 GMT -5
The Expos could work. Bunch of assholes on here raining on the parade. Go Jets Go them.
|
|
|
|
Post by gilligan on Aug 7, 2011 22:02:26 GMT -5
No kidding. Remember the 3 keys for the Return of the Jets:
1. New NHL economic system
2. New Arena
3. Solid Ownership group
Montreal has the same three issues for baseball. So they're many years out from being able to host a team. But this was the situation in Winnipeg at one time too.
Heck, even after all 3 were in place in Winnipeg, it took years for a team to relocate. When the leagues aren't looking at expansion, you almost need a #4 on that list - a team to relocate.
Doesn't hurt for Montreal fans to dream, but they'll have to be extremely patient. Probably even more patient that Jets fans, as they're quite a bit further from the goal.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2011 22:31:47 GMT -5
Yes how dare we try to expand a sport beyond percived boundries! What was i thinking? Xenophobes Do you consider all the Winnipegers(including most on this board) Xenophobes for rightly pointing out Atlanta and Phoenix wouldn’t work for hockey and the numbers just didn’t add up in terms of revenue or fan support? Do you think it would be Xenophobic to point out the NHL wouldn’t work in Mexico City?? Am I xenophobic for wanting to save the good people of Montreal/Quebec from a 500 Million Dollar white elephant boondoggle stadium ala Glendale? Am I Xenophobic for pointing out a new Quebec City arena would cost 400 million dollars so the total combined cost for both would be 900 Million dollars. How could anyone support this? And don’t think for 1 minute this will be privately financed. Since 1991 22 new MLB stadiums have been built. Only 2(San Francisco/St. Louis) were privately financed. San Francisco could do it because they have a great fan base(7.4 million in the bay area) plus the rights to Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley had a huge role in financing it. In St. Louis they could do it because they have one of the top fan bases in baseball. The 2 New York teams stadiums were privately built but they got 100’s of millions in infrastructure help from the city. There are no small market privately financed stadiums. By the way if Quebecor isn’t willing to invest themselves in a Quebec City arena for a sure thing like the Nordiques who would easily sell out every game what makes you think they would put anything into something like a baseball stadium for a team only a couple die hards cared about? The bottom cold hearted line is that the numbers do not add up for MLB in Montreal. This isn’t just the “naysayers” saying this. Even the “pro” Montreal report says this won’t work. Moving baseball to a place like Montreal will no more grow baseball than moving hockey teams to Atlanta and Phoenix will “grow” the NHL. I don’t have anything against Canada. I repeat, I want the Nordiques to return. I just don’t think crappy markets that can’t support teams are good for any sport so that’s why I’m against MLB in Montreal or any other small market like a Portland, San Antonio, Vegas etc. This is the same reason why I was so happy when the Thrashers went to Winnipeg. Watching the Thrashers and Coyotes on TV sucks. It ruins the game when you have dog teams with no fan support whatsoever and the stands are empty. The last thing baseball needs is another small market team with no shot in a sport without a cap. |
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2011 22:45:24 GMT -5
Baseball does not work in Montreal. Not one bit. It worked in Montreal, and it can. Many factors led to their departure. Firstly, the stadium. I, for one, had the experience of watching an Expo game in the Big O. It is an absolutely AWFUL venue (especially for a baseball game). Secondly, they got screwed over when the team was 1st place in the middle of the season when they cancelled the rest of the season due to the lockout. Thirdly, the fanbase got even more screwed over when all the stars kept getting traded away. If you look around the league, you could make an all-star team with all the former Expo players that got spattered around the league. I agree the Big O sucked but even with a new stadium the support wouldn't have been close to enough. I did more calculations on why the Expos were so bad 10 of 36 years the Expos averaged over 20,000 fans They tops they ever got was 28,000 fans 6 of 36 years over NL average 9 of 36 years the Expos were at least 50 % below of NL average 14 of 36 years the Expos were at least 70% below of NL average 17 of 36 years the Expos were at least 75% below of NL average In many of these years other teams had crappy stadium too!! Remember all the old cookie cutters like Busch Stadium,Riverfront, the vet and Astrodome. Yet they all outdrew the Expos and never lost there team. The Expos were not the only team doing well in 1994. This is an excuse. What about the White Sox, Indians, Braves, etc. None of these fan bases quit. They all had shots too!!! The Expos were not the only team in history broken up. It happens all the time to Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, San Diego etc. including within the past few year. What in the hell makes anyone think they are going to keep stars this time? Montreal will still be a small market even with a new stadium. Who is the team that is coming to Montreal?? By the way most of those all stars around the league you could make an all star team with have retired other than Vlad Gurrerro and he is very old. |
|
