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Post by gilligan on Jun 9, 2011 16:42:46 GMT -5
I don't fault them for trying to get federal funding for an amazing stadium, much like Saskatchewan did for their football stadium.
But once that was off the table, they needed to move on to a different plan. Forget the Olympics, that was really a pipe dream attached to the project to lure Federal funding, which didn't come anyhow.
Scale it down and get it done. A lot of people could save face if a better proposal came forward.
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Post by ReJ40 on Jun 9, 2011 16:46:33 GMT -5
I don't fault them for trying to get federal funding for an amazing stadium, much like Saskatchewan did for their football stadium. But once that was off the table, they needed to move on to a different plan. Forget the Olympics, that was really a pipe dream attached to the project to lure Federal funding, which didn't come anyhow. Scale it down and get it done. A lot of people could save face if a better proposal came forward. Exactly. The solution to all this is to scale back to a 16,000 seat, 200 million dollar arena (or something along those lines) and then you have something. If Quebecor cannot or will not pay for a large portion of the arena, something tells me they will not be NHL Owner material either, and the need for a new updated arena is effectively null and void. Yeah yeah, Le Colisee is old but let's not fool ourselves... the new rink is for NHL hockey. If Quebecor will not pony up some or most of the money and show leadership, then they are barking up the wrong tree anyway and should let the plan go. You can't get all the glory without some dirty work. If that arena is supposed to be profitable, then there should not be any hesitation. Either s**t or get off the pot. |
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Post by selanne405 on Jun 9, 2011 19:35:15 GMT -5
We want a high-tech arena for shows too, not just the NHL and it cost more. And you have to understand that the 400 millions isn't just the arena but all things around it (plans, etc..). Most arena project just have the arena cost and not everything around it as in our case. Sorry, the MTS Centre which again was built for far less than this proposed arena holds tons of high profile shows and is considered a great venue. |
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Post by dentifrice on Jun 9, 2011 19:42:48 GMT -5
it's 8 years ago, prices aren't the same. It's impossible to get a high-tech arena for 200 millions en 2011
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Post by selanne405 on Jun 9, 2011 19:52:45 GMT -5
it's 8 years ago, prices aren't the same. It's impossible to get a high-tech arena for 200 millions en 2011 Really and you know this how? The BOK Center which seats just over 19, 000 was built six years ago for 196 million USD ($190747322 CDN) So your telling me the cost of building arenas has more than doubled in 6 years?  Try again |
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Post by ReJ40 on Jun 9, 2011 20:17:53 GMT -5
it's 8 years ago, prices aren't the same. It's impossible to get a high-tech arena for 200 millions en 2011 - MTS Centre was built in 2004 for $133.5 million. That is CAN $153.6 million today with inflation. - Columbus' Nationwide Arena was built in 2000 for $175 million, or US $219.3 million today. - Minnesota's Xcel Energy Center was built in 2000 for $130 million, or US $162.9 million today. - Glendale's Jobing.com Arena was built in 2003 for $180 million, or US $212.7 million today. - Tampa Bay's St. Pete Times Forum was built in 1996 for $139 million, or US $191.2 million today. - Caolina's RBC Center was built in 1999 for $158 million, or US $204.8 million today. - Pittsburgh's Consol Energy Center cost $321 million dollars, but used next to no public money (only a few million after the total cost rose). - New Jersey's Prudential Center cost $375 million dollars, but used no public money except for a few infrastructure improvements around the facility. - Montreal's Bell Centre (270 million in 1996) and Toronto's ACC (265 million in 1999) were 100% privately funded. See, there is a pattern here.... If Quebec can't afford a 400 million dollar rink, they can't build a 400 million dollar rink.If I make a modest salary or am buried in debt, as much as I plan and want and beg for a Lamborghini Diablo, it just can't be done. Same situation here. If the area really needed a 400 million dollar arena, there would and should be sufficient business support to build it and pay at least 50-75% of it privately. --- Source - Canadian Inflation www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/Source - USA Inflation www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi |
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Post by selanne405 on Jun 9, 2011 20:25:21 GMT -5
Rej not gonna lie you nailed it with that post. Well done.
If some rich dude wants to put his own money into an expensive venue thats his business but putting that much tax dollars into an arena with zero private is absolutely absurd and makes Quebec City look like a joke. Regardless of whether or not its the cost thats disputed or the contracting process this entire project is a joke
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Post by dentifrice on Jun 9, 2011 21:04:32 GMT -5
as I said earlier (and nobody wants to read it it seems), the 400 millions cost is for everything around it (building, studies, plans,terrain,etc.). All your prices are for the building only.
The building itself may cost 300 millions I don't know.
But anyways, you may write 200 pages about how you don't like it, If we get a 400 millions with 100% public building, then we'll have it !
I believe this is the only advantage of living here, people are ok with public founding.
And BTW, you numbers are too simple. You can't calculate inflation like this on a project that big. For example, oil price is rising way faster than inflation. Same thing with a lot of stuff. The firm who evaluated the total cost have already taken in account all of this and explained it several month ago but I don't remember all of it. And don't forget, this is only an evaluation.
Anyway, I'm sure I will have 20 more answers saying that we are wrong, so I'm done with this.
Good luck with the jets !
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Post by gilligan on Jun 10, 2011 1:52:54 GMT -5
as I said earlier (and nobody wants to read it it seems), the 400 millions cost is for everything around it (building, studies, plans,terrain,etc.). All your prices are for the building only. The building itself may cost 300 millions I don't know. But anyways, you may write 200 pages about how you don't like it, If we get a 400 millions with 100% public building, then we'll have it ! I believe this is the only advantage of living here, people are ok with public founding. And BTW, you numbers are too simple. You can't calculate inflation like this on a project that big. For example, oil price is rising way faster than inflation. Same thing with a lot of stuff. The firm who evaluated the total cost have already taken in account all of this and explained it several month ago but I don't remember all of it. And don't forget, this is only an evaluation. Anyway, I'm sure I will have 20 more answers saying that we are wrong, so I'm done with this. Good luck with the jets ! Perhaps they shouldn't be marketing this as a $400mil project then, if the number is causing them that much trouble. Just focus on building an arena, get that part passed, and leave room for the rest that'll follow very soon after the NHL returns. The arena alone should be doable for somewhere around the $200mil to $250 million mark. There is just no reason for that price tag to be so high, when Regina was going to build an indoor football stadium with a retractable roof for the same amount. A hockey arena should come in WAY below that. |
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Post by Hannu Smail on Jun 10, 2011 9:03:38 GMT -5
If Quebec City gets a $400M arena built entirely on the back of public funding, I could not in good conscience support their NHL aspirations. I'm sorry, but that's just crazy. The potential ownership having zero skin in the game while reaping all the benefits? That's nuts. Would it even be set up as a repayable bond? Or is it just a straight public venture? $400M. Wow.
And with regards to the price tag including the supporting area/developments..... how well is that working out for Glendale?
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Post by iliketherangers on Jun 10, 2011 9:08:05 GMT -5
If Quebec City gets a $400M arena built entirely on the back of public funding, I could not in good conscience support their NHL aspirations. I'm sorry, but that's just crazy. The potential ownership having zero skin in the game while reaping all the benefits? That's nuts. Would it even be set up as a repayable bond? Or is it just a straight public venture? $400M. Wow. The company "quebecor" is paying them about $60-70 million if they get a team |
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Post by dentifrice on Jun 10, 2011 9:37:53 GMT -5
I didn't want to reply again, but I just want to say that it seems you have no clue what the contract it (and it's normal, it difficult to have info because of the language barrier in Quebec)
The city is not stupid, they're getting a lot of money from that and that money will refound the provincal gov over the years.
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Post by matrix on Jun 10, 2011 17:05:55 GMT -5
If Quebec City gets a $400M arena built entirely on the back of public funding, I could not in good conscience support their NHL aspirations. I'm sorry, but that's just crazy. The potential ownership having zero skin in the game while reaping all the benefits? That's nuts. Would it even be set up as a repayable bond? Or is it just a straight public venture? $400M. Wow. The company "quebecor" is paying them about $60-70 million if they get a team 63 millions for the naming right on the building. and 200 millions total on 25 years. |
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Post by ronjeremy on Jun 10, 2011 17:32:09 GMT -5
Dentifrice et Matrix: Je suis pour le retour des Nordiques et que l'on ait un nouvel aréna, mais c'est un deal de merde et vous le savez. Péledeau doit mettre de l'argent dans l'aréna.
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Post by mcguire4 on Jun 10, 2011 18:35:38 GMT -5
Dentifrice et Matrix: Je suis pour le retour des Nordiques et que l'on ait un nouvel aréna, mais c'est un deal de merde et vous le savez. Péledeau doit mettre de l'argent dans l'aréna. what the FACK is this??.....  |
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Post by Puckschmuck on Jun 10, 2011 20:34:31 GMT -5
Dentifrice et Matrix: Je suis pour le retour des Nordiques et que l'on ait un nouvel aréna, mais c'est un deal de merde et vous le savez. Péledeau doit mettre de l'argent dans l'aréna. what the FACK is this??..... Communication in the french language. |
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Post by ReJ40 on Jun 10, 2011 21:40:28 GMT -5
Translation: Dentrifice and Matrix: I am supportive of the Nordiques return and that the city has a new arena, but this is a Go Jets Go deal and you know it. Peladeau must put money in the arena.(just to clear things up  ) |
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Post by mcguire4 on Jun 10, 2011 23:35:02 GMT -5
Translation: Dentrifice and Matrix: I am supportive of the Nordiques return and that the city has a new arena, but this is a Go Jets Go deal and you know it. Peladeau must put money in the arena.(just to clear things up ) merci!... ;D |
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Post by matrix on Jun 11, 2011 16:14:31 GMT -5
Dentifrice et Matrix: Je suis pour le retour des Nordiques et que l'on ait un nouvel aréna, mais c'est un deal de merde et vous le savez. Péledeau doit mettre de l'argent dans l'aréna. There is 0 $ federal in this building... So if the population of Quebec decide to pay for it, let them do it ! I won't tell you where YOUR governement should put YOUR money |
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Post by matrix on Jun 11, 2011 16:34:19 GMT -5
And by the way, do you think the deal in Edmonton is better ??
Katz will put 100 millions in the building and thats it, no rent, nothing more...
Is it what you are suggesting us to do ?
100 millions to use the building for 35 years
all operating revenues, including naming rights and parking revenue are going to Katz.
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Quebecor will pay 200 millions on 25 years:
64 millions for naming right
15 per cent of profits from the building is going to the city.
5 millions rent per year (with an NHL team)
This is a very good deal.
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