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Post by dentifrice on Jun 8, 2011 6:46:20 GMT -5
yesterday has been a big day
4 deputies resign because they don't want this law (all from montreal), 3 others deputies are doing everything they can to stop this project and the prime minister has delay everything to September.....
Do you know how frustrating it is to live in this BS province ? Fu**** montreal wants everything. This is unbelievable, montreal deputies are deciding for what will and what will not happen in Quebec City. But they aren't complaining about the millions of dollards we give the F1 racing, the $300 millions we give the montreal new orchestral scene, $300 millions we give to change the Olympic stadium roof which NO BODY USE, etc.
We were sooooo close, now i'm not sure we will get an arena....
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Post by iliketherangers on Jun 8, 2011 9:12:58 GMT -5
I heard about that. That sucks. update us in case something happens.
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Post by swervinmervin123 on Jun 8, 2011 10:19:54 GMT -5
Gary Bettman has been on record hundreds of times (as we well know) that the NHL will work hard to keep franchises in the locations they are in (especially if they are in markets that THEY think are important).
Having said that, when the NHL (and the local owners) are presented with a blue chip alternative - like TN and Winnipeg - they are demonstrating that they WILL make a move.
So, for Quebec to get a franchise, they should review what TN has done so well, and try to emulate it.
I agree with other posters on this thread that the best way to demonstrate that a city is NHL-ready is to support the next highest level of hockey, which is the AHL. For any naysayers to this plan, remember that a very large portion of the Canuck roster are former Moose players. The quality of hockey in the AHL is very high - despite some opinions to the contrary. Demonstrating support for an AHL team, AND demonstrating that an organization can run a successful hockey business at that level, are really important ways to show the NHL that an organization and a city are ready for an NHL team - that they are a "blue chip", turn-key "ready for NHL" franchise-in-waiting.
Quebec City could operate an AHL team out of le colisee while they work on getting their new arena built.
Ownership, building and fan support are the 3 key criteria that GB has mentioned, if my memory is correct. The building is easy to see and evaluate (once it is built, and/or based on the plans, as ultimately approved). By running a successful and well-supported AHL team, Quebec can demonstrate the quality of their organization (under the heading of "ownership") and their fan support.
Don't take this the wrong way, please. I am not saying that QC is not a good location for an NHL team. I strongly support the NHL in Quebec City. My comments are really about how Quebec City could make the best possible presentation to the NHL, to woo them back to Quebec City.
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Post by bcmike on Jun 8, 2011 11:09:51 GMT -5
I found this great comment in the comments section: "This only rates about a 3.5 on the 1-10 scale of Quebec political scandals. To hit a 6, you need to leave confidential NATO briefing documents at your outlaw biker girlfriend's house. For an 8, you need to rig bids so that organized crime wets it beak in every single public construction contract, resulting in shoddy concrete that collapses on passing cars from time to time.
The perfect 10 is rare but do-able. One sure fire way to get close is by holding a referendum on independence, lose (possibly due to shenanigans from the other side), get plastered, then go on national TV and blame the loss on the ethnic vote."I LMFAO reading that.
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Post by selanne405 on Jun 8, 2011 13:11:51 GMT -5
Quebec City is bringing way too much political bs into their NHL aspirations. Not sure what the ownership group in there is but they need to man up and put some of their own money into this deal. I can understand Montreal's lack of co-operation. The provincial government really shouldnt need to put that much money into their arena. In all honesty this whole Quebec City arena thing is an absolute go jets go like why they, feel the need to put that much money into the arena is beyond me.
Total Cost $400 million, 50-50 split between provincial and city government, like wtf?
The MTSC costed $135.5 million, 70% of the funding was from the private sector and as we all know the MTSC is NHL calibre. Plus as know Quebec City can not host the Winter Olympics thus why they feel the need to throw so much money into an arena makes no sense.
The Bell Centre from what Ive gathered was preety much financed purely from the private sector (please correct me If Im wrong on that)
So while its frustrating for people in Quebec City I think this project does deserve to be shot down, tax payers all over Quebec should not have to pay $200 million to build an arena when A) The arena could be built for a almost a third of the total cost B) Quebec City would be a great NHL market thus any owner should have no problem putting money into the arena.
Maybe TNSE should give them the number of the guy they used.
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Post by gilligan on Jun 8, 2011 14:31:41 GMT -5
Don't think you could build an arena as cheaply in Quebec City as you can in Manitoba. Though $400mil is certainly shooting for state of the art.
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Post by dentifrice on Jun 8, 2011 17:57:24 GMT -5
for your info, the actual colisée is already 100 % public so it's not like it's new
and by the way, no one is against the $200 millions from the gov. People against the project don't like the contract between the city and Quebecor. You have to know that, here in Quebec, private companies doing money is evil. And Quebecor may makes money out of it, so Quebecor is the devil.
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Post by swervinmervin123 on Jun 8, 2011 19:48:19 GMT -5
It's funny/ironic how that is the opposite perspective of the "issue" in Manitoba!
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Post by mrconfusion87 on Jun 9, 2011 3:24:06 GMT -5
Thanks for the update from QC (you know who you are)! I do hope that you guys get over that Montrealer lawsuit BS! Anyways, good luck again over there, and brace yourselves cuz from the looks of it, it's gonna be one helluva rollercoaster ride on the way back to the NHL! But rest assured, even when Winnipeg is playing starting next season, we'll still be watching you guys and rooting for you all over there!
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Post by swervinmervin123 on Jun 9, 2011 8:10:44 GMT -5
Yes, we'll be watching and cheering for Quebec City to get in for 2012-13!!!
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Post by peter26 on Jun 9, 2011 10:30:00 GMT -5
I'm also from Quebec, and this week I'm feeling like I'm living in Cuba or USSR. I'm ashamed to be from the province of Quebec.
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Post by gilligan on Jun 9, 2011 11:37:30 GMT -5
for your info, the actual colisée is already 100 % public so it's not like it's new and by the way, no one is against the $200 millions from the gov. People against the project don't like the contract between the city and Quebecor. You have to know that, here in Quebec, private companies doing money is evil. And Quebecor may makes money out of it, so Quebecor is the devil. The problem is that they broke the law in giving the contract to them. Of course it makes the most sense for Quebecor to run the arena if they are the ones owning an NHL team. That is the best, and perhaps only, way to make the NHL work in a civic arena. But right now, they have no NHL team, so that cannot be part of the current arena contract. And they aren't supposed to just give that contract to someone without a bidding process. Hopefully they can overcome that hurdle and get back to the front of the line when it comes to NHL relocation.
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Post by dentifrice on Jun 9, 2011 11:52:15 GMT -5
for your info, the actual colisée is already 100 % public so it's not like it's new and by the way, no one is against the $200 millions from the gov. People against the project don't like the contract between the city and Quebecor. You have to know that, here in Quebec, private companies doing money is evil. And Quebecor may makes money out of it, so Quebecor is the devil. The problem is that they broke the law in giving the contract to them. . they didn't break the law. In fact, they are in a "black hole". Nodoby can really say if it's legal or not because it's the first time it happens and no laws apply to it. It's a very complex situation. that is why we need a law, while nobody can prove the legality, anyone can sue the city (like the frustraded guy) and delayed the construction
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Post by gilligan on Jun 9, 2011 13:04:25 GMT -5
Well, regardless of the law, it usually it isn't okay to single source a contract to one group unless there is good reason.
In this case, the only real reason is the NHL. It is a good reason, but also a hypothetical one at this point.
I hope they find a way to make it work. But I also understand why people are challenging it.
Perhaps if Quebecor put more of their own money into the arena contruction itself, it would be harder to deny them the management deal. I don't think there was much opposition in Manitoba for having TNSE run the arena, given that it was so heavily financed with private money. If anything, it may have been the government dollars that would've been opposed.
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Post by mcguire4 on Jun 9, 2011 13:09:46 GMT -5
400 million is ridiculous. lower that cost and see your arena built. your not getting the Olympics.
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Post by dentifrice on Jun 9, 2011 13:20:02 GMT -5
We want a high-tech arena for shows too, not just the NHL and it cost more.
And you have to understand that the 400 millions isn't just the arena but all things around it (plans, etc..). Most arena project just have the arena cost and not everything around it as in our case.
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Post by selanne405 on Jun 9, 2011 13:20:03 GMT -5
Lower the price or ask the owner to actually help pay for his team's arena. TNSE did it...
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Post by dentifrice on Jun 9, 2011 15:36:14 GMT -5
You want a proof that the guy is a /$"/$"/ moron ?
He was saying that he's not against hockey and new arena but only the contract. Of course, a lot a people don't believe him. He hates sport.
Today, he announces that he will continue his quest and he said that (sorry I tried the translate it the best I can)
"hockey is mismanaged, only the public trough allows it to survive. The companies that own teams are millionaires welfare recipients . Ruinous quest to have a team gangrene cities where these teams settle"
Couples of weeks ago, he said that hockey was a barbaric sport....
And the guy hates the current mayor and wants to build a new political party (surprise).
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Post by gilligan on Jun 9, 2011 15:46:25 GMT -5
We want a high-tech arena for shows too, not just the NHL and it cost more. And you have to understand that the 400 millions isn't just the arena but all things around it (plans, etc..). Most arena project just have the arena cost and not everything around it as in our case. MTSC is one of the busiest arenas in the country, used over 200 days every year. Seems to be good enough for most shows. I can see wanting something a bit bigger/better, but 3x the cost is a bit much, even with Quebec construction costs.
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Post by ReJ40 on Jun 9, 2011 15:53:21 GMT -5
Here is my two cents....
Considering Quebec has very high debt, and they want this to be publically funded, they should not be building a 400 million dollar arena. That is the first problem. Why would Quebec's arena cost 400 million?? In a market 1/6th the size of Toronto and 1/4 the size of Montreal. They are going about this all wrong. They need to do like Winnipeg and build a small-ish, intimate and conservative arena if they want public money. They could do it for half that price.
Then, let's say they do it for 200, and PK Peladeau and Co. pays for half, then that is a 50 million dollar split between the provice and city. That would at least be half-reasonable.
The ACC in the middle of downtown Toronto cost 265 million in '99 (343 million today). The Bell Centre in tax-hungry Montreal was 270 million in '96 (or 364 million today). The MTS Centre, in a comparable hockey market, cost just 133 million in 2004 (~153 million today)
The other thing is if Mr. Peladeau really plans to run an NHL team in the future, the first thing he should do to prove that he has reasonable money to burn + business smarts. He should pay a portion (or all) of that new arena and perhaps he could get the other half if he asks nicely. But, simply begging for Government money and not paying a dime is the cheap way out and it will not impress the citizens, the governments or the NHL.
This arena is too political, was presented way waaaaay wrong, and it really rubs too many people the wrong way. Just like that botched parking study in Gongdale, it's time to throw out the blueprints for that arena and design one for 200 million, then you have a case. Until then, all this arena will be is a political drum that the mayor and whatever various councellor can make noise with to advance their careers. Nothing will ACTUALLY get done.
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