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Post by dandeneau44 on Mar 20, 2011 14:41:22 GMT -5
True. At the end of the day though do you honestly think the BoG are going to want to wait this out. Bettman and his ego may want to wait it out but I doubt the risk or losing $40million next year if this is deemed illegal will sit well with the Governors especially when some of them are hardly scraping by. Why risk all of that when plan B is an incredibly simple one? It makes you wonder and honestly I just want this to end. Hopefully tomorrow... I'm not sure if they are willing to wait it out or not. But I do know that as long as they can "check off a step" it will be done. Right now its the bonds. Regardless of the GWI lawsuit, the NHL still can sell the bonds. If GWI sues and the bonds are done, etc, then I don't know what the next step is, I don't think they do either. The selling of the bonds is the task at hand. Yea it's not like if the bonds have a chance at selling the BoG is going to tell Bettman to stop trying. They'll let him go on until they believe it's going to hurt them personally. I think that will be the lawsuit. That can hurt them personally. No harm right now in letting Gary try to find bond buyers though. One step at a time...
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Post by rusty on Mar 20, 2011 14:43:32 GMT -5
If this is in fact true, Bettman should have no trouble convincing the BOG that they need to own this team fot yet another year to try and find new owners or rework the deal in place. The nhl deems maintaining a footprint in arizona more important then returning to winniprg. Call me crazy, but I also think that Bettmans reputation and possible career is on the line here as well. Staying in Phoenix is imperative and it doesn't, I think Bettman may have to take some kind of fall. The BoG entrusted him to get it done, and he may not be able to. But you say they extended his contract another 5 years, right? That was 5 months ago, when Glendale was all sunshine and roses and Hulsizer was going to walk on water on the fountains at West Gate.
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Post by loogs on Mar 20, 2011 14:43:36 GMT -5
the NHL has to please the courts!!!... don't loose sight as to why we are here. An injunction which would stop the deal dead in it's tracks will spell the end, and in the courts eyes "everything that could be done was"!........... end of story.
p.s and if you don't thing GWI is just forking drooling over the thought of filing one you my friend have been living under a rock!
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Post by rusty on Mar 20, 2011 14:45:18 GMT -5
the NHL has to please the courts!!!... don't loose sight as to why we are here. An injunction which would stop the deal dead in it's tracks will spell the end, and in the courts eyes "everything that could be done was"!........... end of story. Nope, they aren't doing this for a show to please the courts. They could care less about the courts. The NHL is looking out for the NHL.
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Post by gobombersgo on Mar 20, 2011 14:45:20 GMT -5
You make a very good point If this is in fact true, Bettman should have no trouble convincing the BOG that they need to own this team fot yet another year to try and find new owners or rework the deal in place. Call me crazy, but I also think that Bettmans reputation and possible career is on the line here as well. Staying in Phoenix is imperative and it doesn't, I think Bettman may have to take some kind of fall. The BoG entrusted him to get it done, and he may not be able to. But you say they extended his contract another 5 years, right? That was 5 months ago, when Glendale was all sunshine and roses and Hulsizer was going to walk on water on the fountains at West Gate.
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Post by inkymarx on Mar 20, 2011 14:47:22 GMT -5
Depends what you believe.... If Bettman actually wants to stay in Phoenix, then maybe the NHL does feel like they have a case.
If this whole thing is just a drunk Go Jets Go show so Bettman can say he tried everything before he ditches, this could be his way of making sure this thing comes to an end not by him.
Thing is Bettman and Daly consistently play it as if they don't know anything about GWI and their motivations...... if that was the case, do you really think they would be convincing people to buy these bonds, without actually having any kind of idea as to what kind of "power" or "case" GWI has?
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Post by loogs on Mar 20, 2011 14:47:58 GMT -5
the NHL has to please the courts!!!... don't loose sight as to why we are here. An injunction which would stop the deal dead in it's tracks will spell the end, and in the courts eyes "everything that could be done was"!........... end of story. Nope, they aren't doing this for a show to please the courts. They could care less about the courts. The NHL is looking out for the NHL. really. what if COG comes back and says WTF you sold the team on us before a court of law could establish if this deal is somewhat legit???
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Post by rusty on Mar 20, 2011 14:53:24 GMT -5
Nope, they aren't doing this for a show to please the courts. They could care less about the courts. The NHL is looking out for the NHL. really. what if COG comes back and says WTF you sold the team on us before a court of law could establish if this deal is somewhat legit??? I agree, as long as the NHL can sell the bonds they will try. The future GWI lawsuit is not an issue right now. That will be dealt with if it has to be. Right now they still have a bit of control, and can at least try to get the bonds sold. But, the NHL doesn't give 2 sh*ts about the CoG. They probably think Scruggs and co. is Go Jets Go just as much as we do. The CoG is being played like a fiddle, and the NHL is the player. They aren't going to the limit here to save face in the eyes of the bankruptcy court. They really 100% need and want Phoenix to stay put.
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Post by inkymarx on Mar 20, 2011 14:55:27 GMT -5
the NHL has to please the courts!!!... don't loose sight as to why we are here. An injunction which would stop the deal dead in it's tracks will spell the end, and in the courts eyes "everything that could be done was"!........... end of story. Nope, they aren't doing this for a show to please the courts. They could care less about the courts. The NHL is looking out for the NHL. This is true..... the NHL is no longer bound by a court order to "try everything they can."..... that ended some time ago. If the NHL is in fact putting on a show, it's with their own future and best interests in mind.
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Post by jeffb on Mar 20, 2011 14:56:21 GMT -5
Plausible...afterall, the cog was ready to launch a massive suit against gwi. It would ne just as easy to include the NHL in it.
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Post by loogs on Mar 20, 2011 15:09:01 GMT -5
true be told i just don't see these bonds selling, I think its all stall tactics and filler to get us to end of season!
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Post by inkymarx on Mar 20, 2011 15:09:38 GMT -5
really. what if COG comes back and says WTF you sold the team on us before a court of law could establish if this deal is somewhat legit??? I agree, as long as the NHL can sell the bonds they will try. The future GWI lawsuit is not an issue right now. That will be dealt with if it has to be. Right now they still have a bit of control, and can at least try to get the bonds sold. But, the NHL doesn't give 2 sh*ts about the CoG. They probably think Scruggs and co. is Go Jets Go just as much as we do. The CoG is being played like a fiddle, and the NHL is the player. They aren't going to the limit here to save face in the eyes of the bankruptcy court. They really 100% need and want Phoenix to stay put. I agree with you.... except that the NHL really 100% need and want Phoenix to stay. The way I see it is if the COG kicks and screams when the NHL leaves, it could be devastating for the NHL, and it will come back and bite them in the Go Jets Go again and again and again. I say they are putting on a show so to not look like the bad guys, so no one in the future can say "Look what you did to Glendale."..... and so far it's working.... look at these recent interviews... Bettman and Daly are being called heroes and being thanked for everything they have done for the Coyotes. That's exactly what they want! You want to talk about bad PR.... when the Jets left everyone blamed Bettman....and to this day every one pegs Bettman as being against Canada.... that's not a good thing when your most profitable franchises are in Canada. At this point....what is anyone going to be able to say about Phoenix? Other than that the NHL gave them more than a fighting chance.
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Post by Ranger on Mar 20, 2011 15:11:02 GMT -5
As I mentioned last night, there is no guarantee Goldwater will file for an injunction. And then there's no guarantee that their subsequent lawsuit, if they go through with it, will be successful either. Municipal bonds, as I understand them, are a pretty safe investment. Bettman probably convinced one or more of his friends that they have legal opinions stating that the deal is legal and not to worry about it. Perhaps he even told them that the NHL would "take care of them" in the "unlikely" event that the bonds get defaulted on. All of these are possibilities when you realize that the NHL will pretty much stop at nothing to keep the team in Glendale. We will soon find out. Seriously You think GB is going to turn the NHL into an underwriter for these bonds. Wow.... The NHL has 2 fires, and if MH can put out 1 for a few years they can deal with the "other'. GB has known for a couple of years the NHL is coming back to Wpg. He attitude towards Wpg took a MAJOR turn around that time. Which team? Who knows? You could pick from 6 that are in trouble. But could anyone have guessed the CoG would have first put up the $25M then virtually "buy" the team for someone. I still think this "fight" the NHL is putting up for PHX is about the JB case and the point that when teams move, we (NHL) decide where and when teams move. GWI gives them the perfect out, their hands will be clean. If not and the team team stays, ATL to WPG, GB isn't losing either way.
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Post by tim on Mar 20, 2011 15:23:10 GMT -5
Nope, they aren't doing this for a show to please the courts. They could care less about the courts. The NHL is looking out for the NHL. really. what if COG comes back and says WTF you sold the team on us before a court of law could establish if this deal is somewhat legit??? NHL OR GARY can sell the team anytime they want after Dec 31ST.... They do not have to hang around for any reason except insanity!!!
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Post by traften on Mar 20, 2011 15:32:54 GMT -5
I cant for the life of me figure out why the NHL wants to keep the Yotes in Phoenix. It makes absolutely no sense. The team has historically lost money for 15 years. There will ALWAYS be ownership/bankruptcy issues for years to come.
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Post by tim on Mar 20, 2011 15:37:25 GMT -5
I cant for the life of me figure out why the NHL wants to keep the Yotes in Phoenix. It makes absolutely no sense. The team has historically lost money for 15 years. There will ALWAYS be ownership/bankruptcy issues for years to come. If Atlanta was not in trouble Coyotes deal would be over and off to Winnipeg.
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Post by DKehler on Mar 20, 2011 15:40:51 GMT -5
As I mentioned last night, there is no guarantee Goldwater will file for an injunction. And then there's no guarantee that their subsequent lawsuit, if they go through with it, will be successful either. Municipal bonds, as I understand them, are a pretty safe investment. Bettman probably convinced one or more of his friends that they have legal opinions stating that the deal is legal and not to worry about it. Perhaps he even told them that the NHL would "take care of them" in the "unlikely" event that the bonds get defaulted on. All of these are possibilities when you realize that the NHL will pretty much stop at nothing to keep the team in Glendale. We will soon find out. Seriously You think GB is going to turn the NHL into an underwriter for these bonds. Wow.... The NHL has 2 fires, and if MH can put out 1 for a few years they can deal with the "other'. GB has known for a couple of years the NHL is coming back to Wpg. He attitude towards Wpg took a MAJOR turn around that time. Which team? Who knows? You could pick from 6 that are in trouble. But could anyone have guessed the CoG would have first put up the $25M then virtually "buy" the team for someone. I still think this "fight" the NHL is putting up for PHX is about the JB case and the point that when teams move, we (NHL) decide where and when teams move. GWI gives them the perfect out, their hands will be clean. If not and the team team stays, ATL to WPG, GB isn't losing either way. I wouldn't put anything past Bettman. And I take issue with your stance that he has "known" that a team would be coming to Winnipeg. I think it's just as likely that he sees an opportunity to leverage Winnipeg to ensure he gets what he wants. The NHL could very easily be here right now if he truly wanted it to be. If what has been implied by Darren can be taken at face value (by that I mean I'm sure Darren and True North believes it, but we're talking about Bettman here), then at some point we will at least get a chance at an expansion team, whenever the NHL decides that's feasible, but not before they are confident no other teams are in danger of being relocated. Who knows how long that might be?
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Post by yoyomon on Mar 20, 2011 15:43:29 GMT -5
The nhl deems maintaining a footprint in arizona more important then returning to winniprg. A simple statement, yet at the end of the day this is what it ultimately boils down to. Winnipeg is THE last resort in the eyes of the NHL. Bettman and co. are showing the same complete desparation to close this deal as COG and perhaps willing to roll the dice in a court case. I'm starting to get the feeling that perhaps this goes a little bit deeper. Perhaps the NHL are willing to take this to court if necessary if they truly believe this is winnable. This would set up a court battle of epic proportions between GWI and the NHL and could possibly set a precedence for the future. Perhaps I'm completely out of line here but the NHL are more than aware of the problems lurking in the very near future with Columbus, Carolina, Florida, Atlanta to name just a few. I realize that every state has a different set of laws but if the NHL was able to win the case in Phoenix's favor, then would this not be a huge selling feature for the NHL . I'm sure the COG isn't the only city willing to use Municipal Bonds as a way of helping a Matt Hulsizer type to finance a pro sports team, especially if it's now deemed legit If Bettman could win this case , then maybe he'd have a whole line up of 'Matt Hulsizers" looking to buy Columbus, Carolina, Florida etc. and would have no need to relocate any teams. You gotta think if Phoenix relocate it could cause a domino effect and that is the last thing the NHL want. The BOG would have to pick up the losses for another year but perhaps a small price to pay if it helps save teams from relocation. Afterall knowing Bettman, they'd probably just tack on another 30m to the price for TNSE if necessary.
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Post by Gust Avacados on Mar 20, 2011 15:58:51 GMT -5
anything can happen....i don't believe GWI's case is 100% slam dunk because the subsidies were tailored to try to get around the gift clause by making it appear like COG got something valuable in return...yes its a sham but it might -- I said MIGHT -- make it past a judge...nothing is guaranteed...the NHL has decided to "test" this case I guess if bonds sold (likely to someone connected to BOG or NHL)...it ain't over until it's over... Unless the Judge is a hockey fanatic and wants to pay more TAXES to support the Coyotes for the rest of his/her life - he/she will grant the injunction - this deal is so forked it's unreal. I don't know what is going to happen with this forking franchise - and really don't forking care at this point. But I see the bond deal being as successful as my quest to to win Lotto Max. (i.e. slim and none - and "slim" just left town) Fork the Count and fork COG and fork Hultzi. And that's all I have to say about that...
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Post by WpgJets2008 on Mar 20, 2011 16:03:05 GMT -5
As I mentioned last night, there is no guarantee Goldwater will file for an injunction. But protecting the taxpayers is the main goal of GWI not killing the Coyotes. GWI wants to ensure that that $100 million never reaches Hulsizer. Therefore, an injunction is the only way to do so. A court case only fights the situation after the cash is already transfered. And it costs moeny to fight a court battle so the GWI would rather save every dollar but it will proceed if the whole lot of cash is threatened in their mind. Unless the NHL wants to risk further losses (even if Glendale offers up another $25 million as "insurance" for the 2011/12 season), a court battle offers more cost to the NHL BOG and if they were to lose sets a bad precendence for pros psorts teams across North America. Soon other right of center areas/states may strongly consider their own version of a gift clause. Thus, walking away now when you can can lose the battle to win the war, so to speak. Glendale's bond may approach "junk bond" status with their high level of debt for a town their size. The bond agencies said so when the bonds were being evaluated by the investment community. GWI has latched onto this and is using this very real fear to their advantage. Remember these bonds are only as good as the parking revenue firstly and the city's ability to generate taxes to be able to support. With so much economic regression in the area, houses are still being foreclosed at a speedy rate, you have to wonder if theri willbe money left for things like bond issues when so many core services are being axed. We in Canada and especially those in "steady as she goes" Manitoba don't really see how bad things are. I passed on an opportunity to buy one of three $1.2 million homes in Mesa, Az a few months ago. Over 3,000 square feet of executive-style comfort with large pools (yes I said multiple pools!). The sale price? $186,000, $199,000 and $206,000. Why did I pass? Because I wondered how many years it would take to be able to make a dollar from it. Again considering the times in the area, do you really think hockey will sell there? It didn't in flush economic times, so why would it now? So you are right the NHL may try another half dozen schemes to keep the team there and for another season but this is the reality of the area: depression! Chris
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