Post by Darren Ford on May 15, 2006 0:46:53 GMT -5
Not sure where to start here but being compared to Stalin is either insulting or laughable...I can't decide. Read comments per paragraph:
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey 93
To: returnofthejets@mts.net
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:43 PM
Subject: Darren....
I hope you consider this for one of your "rants".....
First, these aren't rants but simply a handful of people that support your cause. People will support any cause regardless of the financial ramifications if they feel it will help the "common man".
Second, you aren't helping your cause very much by ONLY displaying the positive feedback on your site. You see....people aren't as simplistic as you may believe. People understand when they are being worked. You are working people. Don't deny it. I know for a fact that I am not the only visitor to your site that doesn't necessarily agree with either your perception of the facts or the ability of Winnipeg, as a market, to support the NHL with success. I know this. Yet I can't read anything on your site that leads me to believe those people are out there. You can't honestly expect me to swallow this?!?!
Swallow what?
I'm the ONLY person that has visited this site that has had negative feedback? Please....I might have been born at night...but it wasn't last night. You're choosing to only publish positive feedback, so you aren't doing any great service to the people. You're lying to them by omission.
This may answer several of your next comments. Quite simply, there is enough negative energy in this city to go around. JetsOwner.com aims to balance that and has worked from nothing to where it is today. It seems odd that you just decided to point this out. Everybody knows this is a positive thinking campaign...so yes...it aims to focus on the positive aspects of this issue. Nobody is trying to deny that. Have I ever denied that?
Why is that? Why don't you just face facts and admit that not everyone agrees with you?
Are you kidding me?!? Those facts have been faced many times. But I am not about to waste my time clogging the site with negative viewpoints when a majority of the world knows why Winnipeg CAN'T get the NHL back. Boring. Now lets tell them how we can. Why would I want to help the "other side" of the argument. That being said, I do in fact tackle all of the key reasons why naysayers believe it can't happen. Reading through the site will prove that. But I am not about to constantly contradict myself and confuse a new viewer to the sight by continuously taking both sides.
If you would even throw a few negative comments in your 'Rants' section it would give you more credibility.
I think I've done okay with credibility, thanks.
What I see now is stuff that would make Josef Stalin proud. Just tell the people what you want them to hear...not what is actually being said. Negative comments tell people that you're being honest. Which, as of yet, you aren't being.
The message boards....the common folk's last spot to have their voice heard. Wrong. I was a member. I composed solid arguments citing other team's financial reports, their markets, their arenas and the overall demographics of their region. I was banned. Why? Because I didn't agree. If you only answer to one thing in this e-mail, please let it be this. What is the point of a message board that is Moderated to only allow the 'Yes People' to participate?
That is a load and you know it. Look, you're obviously upset from being banned, but I have left those duties up to very capable people. They obviously had just cause for the ban because dozens and dozens of people play devil's advocate on the boards and have never been asked to leave because they do it in a non-attacking, constructive way.
How will people be able to get a true sense of the likelihood of this endeavour if you ban anyone that speaks ill of the cause? This site really has communism written all over it. I displayed great arguments and was involved in fantastic debates about NHL Markets and NHL Finances. Unfortunately, this caused several of your members to goad me into arguments of a more personal nature. I took the high road as often as possible...yet I was the one that was banned.
I have to say you are the second person to refer to this as communism. It is rather amusing. By the way, the other guy was a wack-job and I sincerely don't think that you are the same. But get real here. This is a campaign to brink NHL hockey back to Winnipeg, not World War II.
If you ever want to be taken seriously....you need more people like me. Honestly! You need to have a site that has negative feedback. It should be encouraged. People that don't agree. Let them speak their mind. Why? Because then you can actually say that the members in favour of this endeavour outweigh the ones that aren't. Banning those that disagree just shows you have a site that gauges supporters....non-supporters aren't counted. Guess what?! 56 people voted for me!!! We'll forget the fact that 127 didn't. That's not important.
Doesn't make sense does it?
Rants of the Day is designed to vent about anything to do with the Jets coming home, not about how they won't come home. Start a different site with a negative angle if you want. I wouldn't complain that no positive energy was being displayed on a site clearly aimed at keeping the NHL out of Winnipeg. I wouldn't visit the site in the first place. That's not to say I don't want you here, but you have to get a grip on what this is all about. It isn't a political platform...it's a grassroots site to educate people of how it is possible for the NHL to return to Winnipeg and to cheerlead the idea.
But you can't say that the majority support this idea. Because you ban people that don't agree.
Again, I don't do the banning, but I'm sure there was just cause. The guys that run the board are as down-to-earth as they come.
So what you have....is a cheer leading squad with no meaning whatsoever. A bunch of 'yes men'. I'm glad I'm not a devoted Winnipeger and supporter of the Return of the Jets. Because I would be appalled at how this campaign is being handled. Never....never would I want my opinion to be the only accepted opinion. No matter how correct I think I am. If I create a site that is dedicated to the sky being blue...I want people to challenge that fact. If nobody did....what's the point in having the site?
Once again, people challenge the site all the time. I spend a good part of my time defending it. You are feeling singled out when in reality you are missing how open the campaign is to debate. I'm ready at any time...but remember...I'm not going to clutter up a website that I've spent an absurd amount of time creating just to please less than 1% of the people that come to it. I'd rather know that it is a clear, concise read for the first-time visitor and regular hub for the devoted visitor than have it a mess with no direction. Believe me, for every one of your e-mails I receive a hundred positive feedback e-mails. And that's no exaggeration.
The way you speak...the way you operate your site...negates the purpose of the site. According to you, the fact that MTS Centre is big enough, Winnipeg as a City is big enough and that there is enough money in Winnipeg to support a team are all common knowledge.
Really. You could have fooled me!! People still don't know, and for many it tooks 3 years to convince them. Easy to say now. What about 3 years ago before this camapign spread the real word. You talk about playing the other side!!! I was the other side! I know how that is. I suppose I should feel good right now because the tides have swung far enough that JetsOwner.com is now the common knowledge. Thank you for saying that.
So what is your site trying to prove? All of these facts, according to you, are accepted common knowledge. So what is your site actually trying to prove? Why do you need a "Campaign" if all of this stuff is factual? According to you a team in Winnipeg could be profitable immediately and forever without ridiculous ticket prices. So.....why don't they have a team yet?
Huh? I'm lost. Just because it's factual doesn't mean it still won't takes loads of cash to get it done. Get it....JetsOWNER .com. Plus I've never said any of it is common knowledge. I wish. I hope one day I can say that. I'd like you to refer to where I say these aspects are common knowledge. Didn't think so.
There is obviously some risk, some uncertainty in Winnipeg or else somebody with a lot more intelligence than you or I would have put a team there already. But that hasn't happened. So you are trying to PROVE that Winnipeg can be a successful NHL market. But you're doing so by removing any naysayers.
I wish. I'm spending 20 minutes responding to you. If that's removing you...then I need to go back and take a third degree.
So really...you're proving nothing. A bunch of work for nothing. I hope you're proud of yourself. You've managed to create a website that has a strong membership, unfortunately you've cleansed those members so that only the ones that agree remain. You've done it well though. You've done it so well that a good number of those members feel that this is a true representation of the people. They actually feel that everyone agrees. So kudos for that. You've brainwashed a lot of people. Maybe you should look into a cult of some sort, I hear they can be quite profitable. Just don't be the first one to drink the Kool-Aid.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Good to hear I've done all of this for nothing. That's me...the brainwashing guy that loves to spend hundreds upon hundreds of hours pouring his heart and soul into a cause that he feels will put this city back on track while maintaining a career of his own, a wife and house....and all so I can start my own cult and be proud that I took some hockey fans into my compound and forced them to call me "leader" as I promise them a big spaceship will take us to our new planet.
Now I 've heard it all.
(I will post this, un-edited, on the board...that way you'll be heard okay...I've got nothing to hide)
Jeffrey93
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey 93
To: returnofthejets@mts.net
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:43 PM
Subject: Darren....
I hope you consider this for one of your "rants".....
First, these aren't rants but simply a handful of people that support your cause. People will support any cause regardless of the financial ramifications if they feel it will help the "common man".
Second, you aren't helping your cause very much by ONLY displaying the positive feedback on your site. You see....people aren't as simplistic as you may believe. People understand when they are being worked. You are working people. Don't deny it. I know for a fact that I am not the only visitor to your site that doesn't necessarily agree with either your perception of the facts or the ability of Winnipeg, as a market, to support the NHL with success. I know this. Yet I can't read anything on your site that leads me to believe those people are out there. You can't honestly expect me to swallow this?!?!
Swallow what?
I'm the ONLY person that has visited this site that has had negative feedback? Please....I might have been born at night...but it wasn't last night. You're choosing to only publish positive feedback, so you aren't doing any great service to the people. You're lying to them by omission.
This may answer several of your next comments. Quite simply, there is enough negative energy in this city to go around. JetsOwner.com aims to balance that and has worked from nothing to where it is today. It seems odd that you just decided to point this out. Everybody knows this is a positive thinking campaign...so yes...it aims to focus on the positive aspects of this issue. Nobody is trying to deny that. Have I ever denied that?
Why is that? Why don't you just face facts and admit that not everyone agrees with you?
Are you kidding me?!? Those facts have been faced many times. But I am not about to waste my time clogging the site with negative viewpoints when a majority of the world knows why Winnipeg CAN'T get the NHL back. Boring. Now lets tell them how we can. Why would I want to help the "other side" of the argument. That being said, I do in fact tackle all of the key reasons why naysayers believe it can't happen. Reading through the site will prove that. But I am not about to constantly contradict myself and confuse a new viewer to the sight by continuously taking both sides.
If you would even throw a few negative comments in your 'Rants' section it would give you more credibility.
I think I've done okay with credibility, thanks.
What I see now is stuff that would make Josef Stalin proud. Just tell the people what you want them to hear...not what is actually being said. Negative comments tell people that you're being honest. Which, as of yet, you aren't being.
The message boards....the common folk's last spot to have their voice heard. Wrong. I was a member. I composed solid arguments citing other team's financial reports, their markets, their arenas and the overall demographics of their region. I was banned. Why? Because I didn't agree. If you only answer to one thing in this e-mail, please let it be this. What is the point of a message board that is Moderated to only allow the 'Yes People' to participate?
That is a load and you know it. Look, you're obviously upset from being banned, but I have left those duties up to very capable people. They obviously had just cause for the ban because dozens and dozens of people play devil's advocate on the boards and have never been asked to leave because they do it in a non-attacking, constructive way.
How will people be able to get a true sense of the likelihood of this endeavour if you ban anyone that speaks ill of the cause? This site really has communism written all over it. I displayed great arguments and was involved in fantastic debates about NHL Markets and NHL Finances. Unfortunately, this caused several of your members to goad me into arguments of a more personal nature. I took the high road as often as possible...yet I was the one that was banned.
I have to say you are the second person to refer to this as communism. It is rather amusing. By the way, the other guy was a wack-job and I sincerely don't think that you are the same. But get real here. This is a campaign to brink NHL hockey back to Winnipeg, not World War II.
If you ever want to be taken seriously....you need more people like me. Honestly! You need to have a site that has negative feedback. It should be encouraged. People that don't agree. Let them speak their mind. Why? Because then you can actually say that the members in favour of this endeavour outweigh the ones that aren't. Banning those that disagree just shows you have a site that gauges supporters....non-supporters aren't counted. Guess what?! 56 people voted for me!!! We'll forget the fact that 127 didn't. That's not important.
Doesn't make sense does it?
Rants of the Day is designed to vent about anything to do with the Jets coming home, not about how they won't come home. Start a different site with a negative angle if you want. I wouldn't complain that no positive energy was being displayed on a site clearly aimed at keeping the NHL out of Winnipeg. I wouldn't visit the site in the first place. That's not to say I don't want you here, but you have to get a grip on what this is all about. It isn't a political platform...it's a grassroots site to educate people of how it is possible for the NHL to return to Winnipeg and to cheerlead the idea.
But you can't say that the majority support this idea. Because you ban people that don't agree.
Again, I don't do the banning, but I'm sure there was just cause. The guys that run the board are as down-to-earth as they come.
So what you have....is a cheer leading squad with no meaning whatsoever. A bunch of 'yes men'. I'm glad I'm not a devoted Winnipeger and supporter of the Return of the Jets. Because I would be appalled at how this campaign is being handled. Never....never would I want my opinion to be the only accepted opinion. No matter how correct I think I am. If I create a site that is dedicated to the sky being blue...I want people to challenge that fact. If nobody did....what's the point in having the site?
Once again, people challenge the site all the time. I spend a good part of my time defending it. You are feeling singled out when in reality you are missing how open the campaign is to debate. I'm ready at any time...but remember...I'm not going to clutter up a website that I've spent an absurd amount of time creating just to please less than 1% of the people that come to it. I'd rather know that it is a clear, concise read for the first-time visitor and regular hub for the devoted visitor than have it a mess with no direction. Believe me, for every one of your e-mails I receive a hundred positive feedback e-mails. And that's no exaggeration.
The way you speak...the way you operate your site...negates the purpose of the site. According to you, the fact that MTS Centre is big enough, Winnipeg as a City is big enough and that there is enough money in Winnipeg to support a team are all common knowledge.
Really. You could have fooled me!! People still don't know, and for many it tooks 3 years to convince them. Easy to say now. What about 3 years ago before this camapign spread the real word. You talk about playing the other side!!! I was the other side! I know how that is. I suppose I should feel good right now because the tides have swung far enough that JetsOwner.com is now the common knowledge. Thank you for saying that.
So what is your site trying to prove? All of these facts, according to you, are accepted common knowledge. So what is your site actually trying to prove? Why do you need a "Campaign" if all of this stuff is factual? According to you a team in Winnipeg could be profitable immediately and forever without ridiculous ticket prices. So.....why don't they have a team yet?
Huh? I'm lost. Just because it's factual doesn't mean it still won't takes loads of cash to get it done. Get it....JetsOWNER .com. Plus I've never said any of it is common knowledge. I wish. I hope one day I can say that. I'd like you to refer to where I say these aspects are common knowledge. Didn't think so.
There is obviously some risk, some uncertainty in Winnipeg or else somebody with a lot more intelligence than you or I would have put a team there already. But that hasn't happened. So you are trying to PROVE that Winnipeg can be a successful NHL market. But you're doing so by removing any naysayers.
I wish. I'm spending 20 minutes responding to you. If that's removing you...then I need to go back and take a third degree.
So really...you're proving nothing. A bunch of work for nothing. I hope you're proud of yourself. You've managed to create a website that has a strong membership, unfortunately you've cleansed those members so that only the ones that agree remain. You've done it well though. You've done it so well that a good number of those members feel that this is a true representation of the people. They actually feel that everyone agrees. So kudos for that. You've brainwashed a lot of people. Maybe you should look into a cult of some sort, I hear they can be quite profitable. Just don't be the first one to drink the Kool-Aid.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Good to hear I've done all of this for nothing. That's me...the brainwashing guy that loves to spend hundreds upon hundreds of hours pouring his heart and soul into a cause that he feels will put this city back on track while maintaining a career of his own, a wife and house....and all so I can start my own cult and be proud that I took some hockey fans into my compound and forced them to call me "leader" as I promise them a big spaceship will take us to our new planet.
Now I 've heard it all.
(I will post this, un-edited, on the board...that way you'll be heard okay...I've got nothing to hide)
Jeffrey93