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Post by tsmof on Mar 9, 2011 22:00:59 GMT -5
Hockey-related comments I can stomach, but Tsmof's comments border on just venting anger towards Quebec. Come on guys, I know it's frustrating to have Quebec in so much debt and all the political aspects, but there are Quebec and francophone supporters of the ROTJ too here. Don't go overboard is all i'm saying.... The comments weren't mirroring any anger, or hatred towards the French. I find it odd that Provincial MLA's in Quebec can have the "we owe it to them" attitude. All the comments were purely driven politically... Its hard to enjoy the Bloc Quebecois, especially as a Westerner. Otherwise, Go Nords |
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Post by WavyGravy on Mar 10, 2011 0:32:11 GMT -5
The anger is towards Quebec sense of entitlement to free money from the rest of Canadian taxpayers. WE built our arena with predominately private dollars and so should Quebec. No offense but the mayor Quebec City is a moron. It would've been political suicide to provide funding for that arena with ZERO private dollars on the table. And before you say that Quebecor buying naming rights is private dollars on the table. No its not the same. The naming rights are sold anyways, their NEEDS to be private dollars involved in the construction costs. AT LEAST 50%.
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Post by selanne405 on Mar 10, 2011 0:52:13 GMT -5
The anger is towards Quebec sense of entitlement to free money from the rest of Canadian taxpayers. WE built our arena with predominately private dollars and so should Quebec. No offense but the mayor Quebec City is a moron. It would've been political suicide to provide funding for that arena with ZERO private dollars on the table. And before you say that Quebecor buying naming rights is private dollars on the table. No its not the same. The naming rights are sold anyways, their NEEDS to be private dollars involved in the construction costs. AT LEAST 50%. Exactly and whats amazing is how while perhaps its not being flat out said, you can just tell its another Quebec is so hard done by the rest of the country. Side one Quebec: Its unfair, Vancouver got federal money to host the olympics, Winnipeg for their museum BUT were being denied the same thing because were french. Side two, the rest of Canada: Those seperatists dont deserve a cent of federal money for their arena. In reality Quebec is entiteled to the same amount of money we got for the MTSC. |
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Post by matrix on Mar 10, 2011 10:17:21 GMT -5
The anger is towards Quebec sense of entitlement to free money from the rest of Canadian taxpayers. WE built our arena with predominately private dollars and so should Quebec. No offense but the mayor Quebec City is a moron. It would've been political suicide to provide funding for that arena with ZERO private dollars on the table. And before you say that Quebecor buying naming rights is private dollars on the table. No its not the same. The naming rights are sold anyways, their NEEDS to be private dollars involved in the construction costs. AT LEAST 50%. Without an NHL team, Quebecor will pay 120 millions $ With an NHL team, Quebecor will pay 200 millions $ (50% of the construction cost). It is not only the naming rights but the rent to use the building |
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Post by jetsorbust on Mar 10, 2011 10:23:08 GMT -5
The anger is towards Quebec sense of entitlement to free money from the rest of Canadian taxpayers. WE built our arena with predominately private dollars and so should Quebec. No offense but the mayor Quebec City is a moron. It would've been political suicide to provide funding for that arena with ZERO private dollars on the table. And before you say that Quebecor buying naming rights is private dollars on the table. No its not the same. The naming rights are sold anyways, their NEEDS to be private dollars involved in the construction costs. AT LEAST 50%. Without an NHL team, Quebecor will pay 120 millions $ With an NHL team, Quebecor will pay 200 millions $ (50% of the construction cost). It is not only the naming rights but the rent to use the building Correct me if I'm wrong, but a big portion of the figures you have quoted are to buy the rights to manage the arena. So they are paying to take the arena and run events at a profit - that is absolutely 100% NOT the same as paying to construct the arena. I'm for QC getting an NHL team, but I do still have some reservations regarding how this deal has been structured for the arena. There's no federal money at this point, so that's fine, but I have to agree with the statement that QC's mayor is an idiot. |
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Post by matrix on Mar 10, 2011 10:35:44 GMT -5
Without an NHL team, Quebecor will pay 120 millions $ With an NHL team, Quebecor will pay 200 millions $ (50% of the construction cost). It is not only the naming rights but the rent to use the building Correct me if I'm wrong, but a big portion of the figures you have quoted are to buy the rights to manage the arena. So they are paying to take the arena and run events at a profit - that is absolutely 100% NOT the same as paying to construct the arena. I'm for QC getting an NHL team, but I do still have some reservations regarding how this deal has been structured for the arena. There's no federal money at this point, so that's fine, but I have to agree with the statement that QC's mayor is an idiot. You are right. You can have some reservations about how the deal has been structured but in the end, It doesn't matter. |
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Post by matrix on Mar 10, 2011 10:54:11 GMT -5
About the mayor, you may think he is an idiot about the "Political Suicide For Tories in Quebec City" but he is right, last poll yesterday in Quebec City : all conservative MPs are going to lose... It is not only because the federal don't want to give money for the construction, it is because they couldn't just say : Yes or No. "Yes, Maybe, No, We don't think so, more private please, how much ? we won't tell you. Give us more time, more time please, Hey watch our Nordiques jersey, we are with you... but we need a business plan..." and in the end, with an investor, they said No... without looking at the business plan they were asking for and Verner said the mayor was not fast enough to build his project They just could not give a clear answer. They played a game with the feeling of people... I understand that you are right, it could have been a political suicide for Tories outside of Quebec if they would invest in the building. However it is a lose-lose situation for them.  |
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Post by jetsorbust on Mar 10, 2011 11:08:42 GMT -5
I never said federal government officials haven't proven themselves to be idiots as well!
I think as residents of QC you have reason to be miffed about how the government handled the whole thing, somewhat playing with your emotions.
But from the articles I saw, that's not what the mayor seemed to be complaining about. It certainly came off as "It's political suicide that you didn't give us money".
I wouldn't blame you for being upset with the way the local MP's handled the situation. And I won't tell you who you SHOULD vote for, but I will say this - every time a Bloc MP gets voted in, the rest of the country resents Quebec a little bit more.
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Post by selanne405 on Mar 10, 2011 18:32:01 GMT -5
About the mayor, you may think he is an idiot about the "Political Suicide For Tories in Quebec City" but he is right, last poll yesterday in Quebec City : all conservative MPs are going to lose... It is not only because the federal don't want to give money for the construction, it is because they couldn't just say : Yes or No. "Yes, Maybe, No, We don't think so, more private please, how much ? we won't tell you. Give us more time, more time please, Hey watch our Nordiques jersey, we are with you... but we need a business plan..." and in the end, with an investor, they said No... without looking at the business plan they were asking for and Verner said the mayor was not fast enough to build his project They just could not give a clear answer. They played a game with the feeling of people... I understand that you are right, it could have been a political suicide for Tories outside of Quebec if they would invest in the building. However it is a lose-lose situation for them. The thing is the MPs in quebec going out and asking/begging for the money put harper and his party in a really akward spot. If he immidiately poured water on it then he would have looked bad. This whole thing was really suicide for those MPs who will not be relected which in turn hurts Harper's dream of a majority gov |
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Post by WavyGravy on Mar 10, 2011 19:34:23 GMT -5
It is NOT the same thing as providing private cash for construction costs. Your private sector needs to put up or shut up. If the Feds put up the cash that your gov't is asking for they HAVE to do the same for Edmonton and Calgary. That would total to a ridiculous amount of money to subsidize billionaire owners. I have (and most Canadians) ZERO tolerance for my tax dollars going towards some rich prick to build a rink, especially when I won't even get any benefit out of it. If a team is viable there, your owner needs to put in their fair share. I am 100% okay with Federal dollars going to the project if its the same or similar percentage that we got for the MTS Centre. Otherwise I'm against it. If the Cons cave to QC demands their WON'T get re-elected, that's a guarantee.
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Post by selanne405 on Mar 10, 2011 20:03:38 GMT -5
It is NOT the same thing as providing private cash for construction costs. Your private sector needs to put up or shut up. If the Feds put up the cash that your gov't is asking for they HAVE to do the same for Edmonton and Calgary. That would total to a ridiculous amount of money to subsidize billionaire owners. I have (and most Canadians) ZERO tolerance for my tax dollars going towards some rich prick to build a rink, especially when I won't even get any benefit out of it. If a team is viable there, your owner needs to put in their fair share. I am 100% okay with Federal dollars going to the project if its the same or similar percentage that we got for the MTS Centre. Otherwise I'm against it. If the Cons cave to QC demands their WON'T get re-elected, that's a guarantee. Well I think there is a level of whats acceptable for the government to kick in money for a stadium but in my opinion as well federal dollars should not be included, for a while Harper entertained the idea of supporting the project since it could include an olympic bid but then Quebec City's ski facilities were for a second time rejected. The MTS Centre Project group kicked in 70% (93 million) and the other 30 (40.5 mill) came from the federal, provincial and municipal levels of government. So essentially yes the MTSC did take federal dollars but no where near the ridiculous amount that Quebec City was begging for. Really there should be a mandated amount that the government can put in for a stadium. The prime minister feeling pressured to help build an arena, with federal tax dollars, for political reasons is really childish and sad. Got the figures on the MTSC from www.mtscentre.ca/overview/funding.php |
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Post by trigger204 on Mar 10, 2011 22:45:05 GMT -5
If Winnipeg were to loose a potential home coming team to anyone I would hope it would be Quebec. Better yet, I would love to be sitting in my season tickets seats watching Jets vs Nordiques. I'm being honest when I say that would be the game in the season I would be most excited to go to.
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Post by tsmof on Mar 13, 2011 15:23:26 GMT -5
Oddly enough... Does anyone see any parallels between the Quebec City build, and the deal structured in Phoenix to Hulsizer?
Quebecor Group, The province and their municipal government are going about this all wrong... Really, I would love to see the NHL go to Quebec... but, I can't imagine it happening on the road the are driving down. What happens if you don't get an NHL team? You guys don't even have an AHL team to anchor that building.
That $400M arena, funded provincially by a province who is writing cheques they can't cash will stand alone as a White Elephant in that city...
If Quebec City is serious about getting an NHL team... then Quebecor should be fronting that cash, not the province.... and they should secure an AHL team and prove they can
1. sell seats
2. Manage the Building.
3. Prove their Ownership Group is Strong and Capable.
Otherwise its not much different than the situation in Phoenix... with the exception being we know Quebec is passionate about Hockey.
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Post by Comrade Fox on Mar 13, 2011 15:38:12 GMT -5
Hockey-related comments I can stomach, but Tsmof's comments border on just venting anger towards Quebec. Come on guys, I know it's frustrating to have Quebec in so much debt and all the political aspects, but there are Quebec and francophone supporters of the ROTJ too here. Don't go overboard is all i'm saying.... The comments weren't mirroring any anger, or hatred towards the French. I find it odd that Provincial MLA's in Quebec can have the "we owe it to them" attitude. All the comments were purely driven politically... Its hard to enjoy the Bloc Quebecois, especially as a Westerner. Otherwise, Go JetsFixed  |
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Post by dentifrice on Mar 14, 2011 6:44:07 GMT -5
Quebecor Group, The province and their municipal government are going about this all wrong... Really, I would love to see the NHL go to Quebec... but, I can't imagine it happening on the road the are driving down. What happens if you don't get an NHL team? You guys don't even have an AHL team to anchor that building. The new Coliseum isn't just about hockey. We don't get big music shows anymore because the current Coliseum is outdated. And by the time we get a NHL team, the Quebec Remparts will play in it. Average assistance are near 15 000 and we are breaking records of the CHL in this departement every year so we don't need an AHL team. The only time we had an AHL team (Citadelles de Québec), it was the related to the montreal canadiens...what an insult !!!!!!! |
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Post by CravenMoorhead on Mar 14, 2011 18:16:28 GMT -5
The only time we had an AHL team (Citadelles de Québec), it was the related to the montreal canadiens...what an insult !!!!!!! We know what you are going through. We are affiliated with the hated Vancouver Canucks since 2001. |
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Post by dentifrice on Mar 14, 2011 19:07:30 GMT -5
The only time we had an AHL team (Citadelles de Québec), it was the related to the montreal canadiens...what an insult !!!!!!! We know what you are going through. We are affiliated with the hated Vancouver Canucks since 2001. I really hope you get a team and beat them ! |
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Post by camocam on Mar 16, 2011 14:07:58 GMT -5
Better than being affiliated with edmonton
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Post by mking4 on Mar 20, 2011 12:36:11 GMT -5
Manitoba is a have not province and most of our governments budget comes from other provinces in the form of equalisation payments. We don't actually pay for Québec. In fact if you look at the data, Manitoba takes more money per capita from equalisation than Québec does. So everybody saying how Québec is suckering Canada for money, well, that's a little like the pot calling the kettle black. www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/eqp-eng.asp en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_populationI'm always surprised at how much hate there is in the West towards French Canadians. It's unfortunate. |
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Post by mking4 on Mar 20, 2011 12:45:18 GMT -5
The MTS Centre was funded 70% privately and 30% publicly (shared between the city, the province, and Canada). I think that's a fair model for all arenas and stadiums in Canada whether they be in Québec, Edmonton, Regina, or wherever. www.mtscentre.ca/overview/funding.php |
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