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Post by razorsedge on Dec 15, 2010 19:30:13 GMT -5
December 15, 2010
Winnipeg approves $190m Blue Bombers stadium
The Winnipeg Blue Bombers are getting their new stadium after all, after the Winnipeg city council voted this afternoon to approve the revised deal put forward last week. As the CBC reports, in a story whose lede is alarmingly blunt for those weaned on U.S-style news coverage:
Winnipeg city councillors have voted to spend $12.5 million and forfeit years of property-tax revenue from a prime piece of retail land to build a $190 million football stadium on the University of Manitoba campus. ...
The government of Manitoba is putting up the bulk of the capital for the stadium, $85 million of which will be in the form of a loan to the Winnipeg Football Club, which is the managing entity of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers. The club will have 44 years to repay the money.
When the current stadium site at Polo Park is ultimately redeveloped, money that is collected by the city in property taxes — about $75 million — will be repaid to the province.
In other words, the public is taking on a fair bit of risk, not to mention that those property taxes won't be available to pay for services to whatever ends up getting built on the current stadium site. (Winnipeg Free Press columnist Dan Lett notes that the Bombers will have to generate $4 million a year in new revenues to pay their share of the costs, which is no slam dunk in the CFL. And yes, I know that they don't have slam dunks in the CFL.) Still, it's arguably better than the original plan in which the province would either end up losing money or losing ownership of its team. So, one point for Manitoba!www.fieldofschemes.com/news/archives/2010/12/4367_winnipeg_approv.html
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Post by crazycanuck on Dec 15, 2010 22:14:50 GMT -5
December 15, 2010
Winnipeg approves $190m Blue Bombers stadium
The Winnipeg Blue Bombers are getting their new stadium after all, after the Winnipeg city council voted this afternoon to approve the revised deal put forward last week. As the CBC reports, in a story whose lede is alarmingly blunt for those weaned on U.S-style news coverage:
Winnipeg city councillors have voted to spend $12.5 million and forfeit years of property-tax revenue from a prime piece of retail land to build a $190 million football stadium on the University of Manitoba campus. ...
The government of Manitoba is putting up the bulk of the capital for the stadium, $85 million of which will be in the form of a loan to the Winnipeg Football Club, which is the managing entity of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers. The club will have 44 years to repay the money.
When the current stadium site at Polo Park is ultimately redeveloped, money that is collected by the city in property taxes — about $75 million — will be repaid to the province.
In other words, the public is taking on a fair bit of risk, not to mention that those property taxes won't be available to pay for services to whatever ends up getting built on the current stadium site. (Winnipeg Free Press columnist Dan Lett notes that the Bombers will have to generate $4 million a year in new revenues to pay their share of the costs, which is no slam dunk in the CFL. And yes, I know that they don't have slam dunks in the CFL.) Still, it's arguably better than the original plan in which the province would either end up losing money or losing ownership of its team. So, one point for Manitoba!www.fieldofschemes.com/news/archives/2010/12/4367_winnipeg_approv.html This is a tough one for me. Yes the Bombers need a new building but I am not sure if this is the right location,cost is pretty high etc. |
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Post by kingarthur on Dec 15, 2010 23:12:14 GMT -5
I was all for the various levels of government helping out with this project as long as their was a mojority of private money funding this and in charge of it. Just like what Chipman did with MTSC. Now that Asper is out I think they should try to find new private money or cancel the whole thing. A government run project will go way to far over budget and will end up never getting payed back fully.
Just look at the great example in Glendale.
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Post by selanne405 on Dec 16, 2010 15:20:47 GMT -5
To be fair though the bombers are a historic team that has been supported for years and is no danger of relocation, most Peggers care a lot about the team and its future. The phoenix Coyotes are the exact opposite.
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Post by razorsedge on Dec 17, 2010 0:03:50 GMT -5
Well, Glendale is spending $197 million on something that they will never recoup their money on. Winnipeg is spending $190 million on something that they will never recoup their money on either. Funny how both city councils approved it within 24 hours of each other. Maybe us rotj and bomber supporters shouldn't be so quick to judge Glendales decision. No the bombers are not at risk of relocating but they have been bankrupt before.
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Post by Dcmac on Dec 17, 2010 0:15:17 GMT -5
Well, Glendale is spending $197 million on something that they will never recoup their money on. Winnipeg is spending $190 million on something that they will never recoup their money on either. Funny how both city councils approved it within 24 hours of each other. Maybe us rotj and bomber supporters shouldn't be so quick to judge Glendales decision. No the bombers are not at risk of relocating but they have been bankrupt before. Winnipeg isn't spending $190 million, the Bombers and province take on most of the load. |
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Post by razorsedge on Dec 17, 2010 7:18:02 GMT -5
I guess I should rephrase my last post to tax payers money. You really think a community owned team will be able to pay ($85 million) that amount back in 40 years? This deal just may bankrupt the team.
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Post by jetsorbust on Dec 17, 2010 16:21:20 GMT -5
It's also partly about precedent. Arena's typically are able to host a plethora of events compared to stadiums and are generally profitable if run properly, while most stadiums from what I understand (even in the NFL) do not turn a profit and need public funding.
I'll admit, it's somewhat hypocritical, very hypocritical even I suppose. But as I said I think it's partly the precedent - most football stadiums are heavily publicly funded. More so than arenas I would hazard to guess, although even arenas are. That's because they are infrastructure related to a city. Sports team operations on the other hand are supposed to be self-sustaining.
Another big difference is that the Bombers are a relatively successful and well-supported team in their league, while Phoenix has been at or near the bottom of the league in terms of fan support.
It would have been nice to see some level of private investment, but I've always kind of thought if a government has to pay for a majority of an arena or stadium, why not just pay for all of it and at least reap any rewards? Seems better than paying for half of some rich guys arena and letting him keep all the profits.
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Post by Ric O. on Dec 17, 2010 19:43:40 GMT -5
They should have given Ledohowski's plan for a dome and hotel/water park complex at the Packers site far more consideration (i.e., SOME consideration) from the very beginning. As usual it was considered too grandiose for us. Me, I think it was a good fit for Winnipeg and a pretty good location too.
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Post by 22Neufeld28 on Dec 18, 2010 2:50:24 GMT -5
They should have given Ledohowski's plan for a dome and hotel/water park complex at the Packers site far more consideration (i.e., SOME consideration) from the very beginning. As usual it was considered too grandiose for us. Me, I think it was a good fit for Winnipeg and a pretty good location too. I dont know if Leos' plan was any better.Sure it was a $265m dome that would be gifted to the BB's who would be on the hook for the stadium upgrades/taxes on the site,but I could gift something too if it wasnt my money I was spending.Leo would manage the Plaza that the BB's would own,what happens if that site didnt make money.Wasnt that one of the same concerns ppl had about the Asper deal. -$40m handout from the fed's -$40m handout from the Prov -$90 million of financing would come from the BB Plaza -And forgive $29m in taxes from the current Stadium site over 15 years. Hmmm! Kinda sounds like Aspers deal-lol |
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Post by Dcmac on Dec 23, 2010 6:57:29 GMT -5
What other option do we have? It's either build this stadium or end up paying more down the road with less resources than we already have. We won't get a knight in shining armor later on, we aren't Phoenix.  Really though, Winnipeg finally TAKES action and shows initiative. I like our chances of pulling through on this deal a hell of alot more than testing the waters and playing in our piece of crap stadium we have currently. This had to be done. |
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Post by WavyGravy on Dec 24, 2010 0:16:20 GMT -5
I don't see how anyone can be surprised about the price tag on this stadium.. Anyone who actually believed you can build a state of the art stadium for $115 mil is delusional... Still don't understand how nobody questioned Asper on that estimate earlier in the process.
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Post by The Unknown Poster on Dec 24, 2010 9:38:50 GMT -5
If you want it to remain community owned, then the community must absorb the costs.
For a facility that will serve the community, pro sports and amateur sports for the next 50-60 + years, this is a small price to pay.
The location is ideal when you consider all aspects, especially the amateur sport one.
It's good to see Winnipeg continuing to prosper.
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Post by selanne405 on Dec 26, 2010 19:07:25 GMT -5
Assuming the bombers can pay back the loan then this seems ok I guess. Hopefully with some better on field results attendance will pick up and the team will make more money. WEe know we'll host a grey cup real soon which is usually a good money maker.
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