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Post by prariefire on May 17, 2011 21:05:45 GMT -5
I doubt many in Winnipeg will not support the team over the name. However, it may affect how much they support it, and how passionately. Brand power baby. For those outside Manitoba, what are the factors in picking a favorite NHL team? Does their support matter to TNSE, and to Winnipeg's NHL fans? And will the team name have an impact there? If there is no use for me in your fan base, fine. I'll be happy that you got your team back. It just won't be "my" team. Really, there is no reason for the new team to be my team anyhow, but there is that pesky childhood attachment to an old team that I know would sway me enough to be a fan. One that buys merchandise, one that provides eyeballs to increase regional TV ratings, one that'd make the effort to see the team play live. I know it isn't logical, but if isn't the Jets, I won't be cheering for them. I simply would have no reason to care about them. I have no idea how many there are out there who are in a similar position. Yes, I'm sorry but the arguement that "If you're not willing to support the team no matter what then we DON'T WANT YOUR SUPPORT" is just foolish, it's peoples emotions getting the best of them in my opinion. I understand the basic idea, that we need true passionate fans and not bandwagon fans. But guess what? The team needs all the support it can get. Not to survive, but to maximize profits. Merchandise sales are the biggest thing I can see being affected by the name... ticket sales themself probably not so much. Anyways, as I've said many times. I can tell you 100% for sure that I have the money in the bank for season tickets, I will be buying season tickets, and I will be at all 41 games each year for at least the forseeable future. If the team is named Jets 2.0, I'll be buying tons of merchandise. (Without exagerating in the last 10 years I have bought or been gifted 4 Jets jerseys, ~8 sweaters, ~ 30 shirts, ~5 hats, 2 touques, signed helmets, gloves, magazines, cards, bar stools, neon lights... I can't even name it all). So do not tell me I'm not a true fan. I am willing to wager that not 1 person on this board has more Jets "stuff" than me, and as a 25 year old it's almost all been purchased in the last 10 years. (as a friendly wager, if anyone would like to compare PM me and we can bet a 6 pack or something on it!). Anyways, my point is you can question my loyalty as a fan if you want, but you would be wrong. But if the team is NOT named the Jets, I simply won't be buying any merchandise when the team comes back, at least not any time soon. I'll wear some of my closet full of Jets schwag... That's my personal feelings on the name, and not everyone may be the same but I can guarantee you that there are other people who would be put off by a non-Jets name. In one way or another, ignoring what your fan base wants will translate into less revenue, that's just a fact. Hey I am almost certain it will be the Manitoba Jets with gov't money involved I have been saying this all afternoon I was told GOV't involvement was not going to be released until a few days before an announcement but I am not sure if that means a press conference is to be reported soon! |
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Post by thesaurus on May 17, 2011 21:11:18 GMT -5
I have not once questioned peoples loyalty, it's been them coming out and saying they will not show the same support if the team is not named the Jets and to me that is ridiculous. If you wanted a team here so bad, support them no matter what the name.
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Post by jetsorbust on May 17, 2011 21:21:39 GMT -5
I have not once questioned peoples loyalty, it's been them coming out and saying they will not show the same support if the team is not named the Jets and to me that is ridiculous. If you wanted a team here so bad, support them no matter what the name. Okay, but I think at least 99% of people are saying they will support the team no matter what the name. Most people that have a problem with the name seem to say something similiar to what I say - that I will support the team but I won't buy merchandise (or not as much as I otherwise would). I don't know what else to compare it to.... It's like True North designing intentionally ugly jerseys and saying "Support it no matter what". They wouldn't do that, and so why would it make sense for them to pick a name they know poeple don't like and just say "Support it no matter what"? To me the biggest thing is this though.... people can yell and scream and tell people they are stupid all they want. But whether it's rational or not, people are telling you (the proverbial you and True North specifically) that they won't support the team AS much if it's some other name. Rather than getting mad at these people and telling them they are stupid, wouldn't it be a better solution to just please your customer base? |
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Post by prariefire on May 17, 2011 21:29:16 GMT -5
jetsorbust we are going to have to meet at a game just because this is so intense I feel like I am fighting with you but that we are agreeing! If that seems right!
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Post by gilligan on May 17, 2011 21:32:34 GMT -5
I have not once questioned peoples loyalty, it's been them coming out and saying they will not show the same support if the team is not named the Jets and to me that is ridiculous. If you wanted a team here so bad, support them no matter what the name. Though I won't support a team that isn't the Jets, I definitely support Winnipeg getting a team back. You deserve it. "Make it Seven", hell yes. Then on to "Make it Eight", hopefully. |
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Post by jetsorbust on May 17, 2011 21:37:14 GMT -5
jetsorbust we are going to have to meet at a game just because this is so intense I feel like I am fighting with you but that we are agreeing! If that seems right! Haha that is how it seems! I guess all I'm saying is that if the province is assisting True North in some way, then you can term that a handout, or an investment just depends which way you look at it. No matter which way you look at it though, it's worth whatever the province gives because they will eventually get more back in return (either directly or indirectly!) |
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Post by thanatos on May 17, 2011 21:38:40 GMT -5
I doubt many in Winnipeg will not support the team over the name. However, it may affect how much they support it, and how passionately. Brand power baby. For those outside Manitoba, what are the factors in picking a favorite NHL team? Does their support matter to TNSE, and to Winnipeg's NHL fans? And will the team name have an impact there? If there is no use for me in your fan base, fine. I'll be happy that you got your team back. It just won't be "my" team. Really, there is no reason for the new team to be my team anyhow, but there is that pesky childhood attachment to an old team that I know would sway me enough to be a fan. One that buys merchandise, one that provides eyeballs to increase regional TV ratings, one that'd make the effort to see the team play live. I know it isn't logical, but if isn't the Jets, I won't be cheering for them. I simply would have no reason to care about them. I have no idea how many there are out there who are in a similar position. Yes, I'm sorry but the arguement that "If you're not willing to support the team no matter what then we DON'T WANT YOUR SUPPORT" is just foolish, it's peoples emotions getting the best of them in my opinion. I understand the basic idea, that we need true passionate fans and not bandwagon fans. But guess what? The team needs all the support it can get. Not to survive, but to maximize profits. Merchandise sales are the biggest thing I can see being affected by the name... ticket sales themself probably not so much. Anyways, as I've said many times. I can tell you 100% for sure that I have the money in the bank for season tickets, I will be buying season tickets, and I will be at all 41 games each year for at least the forseeable future. If the team is named Jets 2.0, I'll be buying tons of merchandise. (Without exagerating in the last 10 years I have bought or been gifted 4 Jets jerseys, ~8 sweaters, ~ 30 shirts, ~5 hats, 2 touques, signed helmets, gloves, magazines, cards, bar stools, neon lights... I can't even name it all). So do not tell me I'm not a true fan. I am willing to wager that not 1 person on this board has more Jets "stuff" than me, and as a 25 year old it's almost all been purchased in the last 10 years. (as a friendly wager, if anyone would like to compare PM me and we can bet a 6 pack or something on it!). Anyways, my point is you can question my loyalty as a fan if you want, but you would be wrong. But if the team is NOT named the Jets, I simply won't be buying any merchandise when the team comes back, at least not any time soon. I'll wear some of my closet full of Jets schwag... That's my personal feelings on the name, and not everyone may be the same but I can guarantee you that there are other people who would be put off by a non-Jets name. In one way or another, ignoring what your fan base wants will translate into less revenue, that's just a fact. I don't think anyone's stated we don't want someones support period if they don't support a non Jets team. What is being stated is that this is a foolish stance to take and is counterproductive to us keeping a team and leads to the conclusion that they really don't actually care about hockey if they'd be so extreme to not support over a name/logo. How can one claim to be a fan of hockey and refuse to support their home team cause they don't get their way..do they really only care about a name? They must and this is not a true hockey fan. If it is explain how. They would be directly contributing to the failure of the team. Not supporting a team over a name is being childish and those are the ones really letting emotions get the best of them. Having merchandise of a specific team means your a fan of that said team it doesn't speak about your passion for a sport per say. I have more football merchandise then hockey but I am much more of a hockey fan then foot ball. I've played hockey all my life and enjoy it even when the Timbits players play in intermission of Moose games it puts a smile on my face and brings back memories of being a kid playing. It's all the details of the sport, the battles the competitiveness and emotion of the game that I love. It's the game and I want it back no matter the name. Not trying to attack you or anyone just stating my line of thought and others. Keep in mind we are talking about very specific types of people, which I doubt exist in high enough numbers to really affect anything. No ones claiming your not a fan of hockey if you prefer the jets name, but if you purposely won't support the team as much over that I mean let's take the emotion out of it and think about it: does one really like the Jets name more then the sport of hockey itself? If so how does this make any sense? It doesn't and that is what is being pointed out. |
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Post by jetsorbust on May 17, 2011 21:51:18 GMT -5
I don't think anyone's stated we don't want someones support period if they don't support a non Jets team. What is being stated is that this is a foolish stance to take and is counterproductive to us keeping a team and leads to the conclusion that they really don't actually care about hockey if they'd be so extreme to not support over a name/logo. How can one claim to be a fan of hockey and refuse to support their home team cause they don't get their way..do they really only care about a name? They must and this is not a true hockey fan. If it is explain how. They would be directly contributing to the failure of the team. Not supporting a team over a name is being childish and those are the ones really letting emotions get the best of them. Having merchandise of a specific team means your a fan of that said team it doesn't speak about your passion for a sport per say. I have more football merchandise then hockey but I am much more of a hockey fan then foot ball. I've played hockey all my life and enjoy it even when the Timbits players play in intermission of Moose games it puts a smile on my face and brings back memories of being a kid playing. It's all the details of the sport, the battles the competitiveness and emotion of the game that I love. It's the game and I want it back no matter the name. Not trying to attack you or anyone just stating my line of thought and others. Keep in mind we are talking about very specific types of people, which I doubt exist in high enough numbers to really affect anything. No ones claiming your not a fan of hockey if you prefer the jets name, but if you purposely won't support the team as much over that I mean let's take the emotion out of it and think about it: does one really like the Jets name more then the sport of hockey itself? If so how does this make any sense? It doesn't and that is what is being pointed out. There's a lot to decipher, but I guess here is what it comes down to: My point of view: Even though I was young when they left, I have a connection to the Jets and I've always wanted the Jets back. If they name them something else, it will simply take away from my happiness, my ecstatic mood and my connection to the team (to some degree). Simply put, I'll be thinking "This is awesome! But..." So I'll support the team, it isn't really a matter of choosing not to support the team because I will support it, but I won't be excited about the new name. And because I will be disapointed by the new name, for at least the foreseeable future I won't want to buy NewName stuff. Your point of view: That not suppporting the team as much as possible is childish. I can see both sides of the arguement, and to be honest, when I step back and look at it I think my own opinion is kind of childish... but that's what other people have said. Passion for your team isn't based on logic... I simply won't be happy with a new name and that's just not going to change. I'm far from rich so I'm going to be spending more than i should on season tickets anyways, but there is just no way that I can see myself buying merchandise for a name that is a severe disapointment to me! Now, I don't think that will lead to the team leaving town anyways but I guess if True North said "If we don't sell 1000 jerseys the team will leave" then I'd go buy a jersey. But it's really not like that. The merchandise sales, and in turn the team name, won't make or break the franchise. But will it effect how much profit True North makes? Absolutely, and that's why I really think they are taking a huge gamble by renaming the team... |
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Post by thesaurus on May 17, 2011 21:53:08 GMT -5
So you'll be $2,000+ for season tickets but you won't plop down $30 for a shirt? Give me a break.
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Post by gilligan on May 17, 2011 21:55:31 GMT -5
You are discounting those who have the option to support another team instead. That is what I'll be doing. It will probably be a team that is geographically closer to me than Winnipeg/Manitoba.
As for the emotions part, that is exactly what branding plays to. All else being equal, it can make a difference. That is why teams have names and logos to begin with. Of course to someone living in Winnipeg, everything is NOT equal, so the brand doesn't make or break support (though it may have a small influence on the level of it).
To the NHL fan in Whitehorse, or Australia, or wherever - it truly could be a factor. People with no "home" team may end up becoming attached to a team for any number of reasons. Could be a favorite player, could be someone bought them merchandise, could be a friend's influence, maybe they just liked the logo and colours when they were a kid - could be any number of reasons.
People who become fans for very flaky reasons (possibly in their childhood) could still become die-hard fans down the line. Happens all the time.
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Post by jetsorbust on May 17, 2011 21:58:56 GMT -5
So you'll be $2,000+ for season tickets but you won't plop down $30 for a shirt? Give me a break. Probably more like $3500 for my ticket... The thing is I'm not saying "I won't buy merchandise" out of spite. That's why what your saying isn't quite right... I'm not saying 'Oh I'll buy tickets but not merchandise as punishment for the name you chose.' It's more that I'll buy tickets because of course a team is the most important thing. But I just frankly won't like the name and won't be excited about the new merchandise... so I won't buy it. Some of the Jets logos people have submitted to this site are amazing... if they brought those back I'd go to a payday loan place if I had to to get my hands on it! Again, I'm just telling you guys this is how I feel and I dont' think I'm alone. If you disapoint your customers with an intentional decision, that's going to translate into less revenue one way or another... for me it's that I won't buy merchandise any time soon because the name will deep down kind of piss me off. |
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Post by gilligan on May 17, 2011 21:59:48 GMT -5
So you'll be $2,000+ for season tickets but you won't plop down $30 for a shirt? Give me a break. Not hard to understand. One is paying to see NHL hockey. The other is buying a branded piece of clothing. How is it hard to see that branding would play a bigger role in influencing the second purchase rather than the first? If his were the common case, TNSE would have nothing to worry about. They'll gladly take the $2000+. But how many season ticket holders are there compared to people who buy merchandise? Will season ticket sales be impacted in the slightest based on the name? Again, how about the merchandising side? Sure, ticket sales are the #1 priority for a team, but other revenue streams are worth considering too, especially when looking at the wider fan base. |
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Post by thanatos on May 17, 2011 22:26:24 GMT -5
When it comes down to it, local support makes or breaks the team. If you support the team and you live abroad, great. Merchandise revenue won't save our team from leaving though. So that's why we are saying, if one doesn't support the team solely for a name then when our attendance plummets, well now we could have no team again.
My point of view that I was stating was solely this: If someone doesn't support the team as in not buying tickets/merch/w.e (even tho tickets are 100x more key) because of the name then this person would be contributing to the potential failure of the team for what I can only infer is due to purely emotional and non rational reasons which indicate a lack of true passion for the sport of Hockey and appreciation of having an NHL team in your city.
Also consider Fans from abroad don't affect the success of the team as directly financially speaking unless they come to games and add to ticket demand rising ticket costs and profits, or alternatively unless they watch the games but I'm not sure how TV revenues directly affect teams.
I am not speaking to jetsorbust here when stating my view as it clearly would not apply to you since you will be supporting the team by coming to the games, quite a few by the sounds of it at that, at least more then I will be able to afford. Again, that type of person is rare but there have been a few that fall into that category on this forum. In fact not buying as much merchandise hurts less then not buying tickets by a large margin, my understanding from what has been said is that merchandise profits are pooled and shared by all teams, so in effect spending more on merchandise regardless of what teams it is, is supporting the entire league.
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Post by jetsorbust on May 17, 2011 22:40:43 GMT -5
When it comes down to it, local support makes or breaks the team. If you support the team and you live abroad, great. Merchandise revenue won't save our team from leaving though. So that's why we are saying, if one doesn't support the team solely for a name then when our attendance plummets, well now we could have no team again. My point of view that I was stating was solely this: If someone doesn't support the team as in not buying tickets/merch/w.e (even tho tickets are 100x more key) because of the name then this person would be contributing to the potential failure of the team for what I can only infer is due to purely emotional and non rational reasons which indicate a lack of true passion for the sport of Hockey and appreciation of having an NHL team in your city. Also consider Fans from abroad don't affect the success of the team as directly financially speaking unless they come to games and add to ticket demand rising ticket costs and profits, or alternatively unless they watch the games but I'm not sure how TV revenues directly affect teams. I am not speaking to jetsorbust here when stating my view as it clearly would not apply to you since you will be supporting the team by coming to the games, quite a few by the sounds of it at that, at least more then I will be able to afford. Again, that type of person is rare but there have been a few that fall into that category on this forum. In fact not buying as much merchandise hurts less then not buying tickets by a large margin, my understanding from what has been said is that merchandise profits are pooled and shared by all teams, so in effect spending more on merchandise regardless of what teams it is, is supporting the entire league. I'm sure some people have heard enough of me on this topic, but it's near and dear to my heart so I have to reply. I think I would basically agree with everything you are saying. And again, I will support the team by attending games no matter what the name, but I DO think naming the team something other than Jets will affect the bottom line in various ways. So yeah, for the most part I would agree with you that it's somewhat irrational to care so much about the name, but to me it still comes down to this: Naming the team something other than Jets will anger some people, and it seems will lower the level of support at least somewhat.
Would anyone be mad or choose not to support the team if it WAS named the Jets?I still think that is the bottom line... |
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Post by coach on May 17, 2011 23:18:30 GMT -5
So you'll be $2,000+ for season tickets but you won't plop down $30 for a shirt? Give me a break. Not hard to understand. One is paying to see NHL hockey. The other is buying a branded piece of clothing. How is it hard to see that branding would play a bigger role in influencing the second purchase rather than the first? If his were the common case, TNSE would have nothing to worry about. They'll gladly take the $2000+. But how many season ticket holders are there compared to people who buy merchandise? Will season ticket sales be impacted in the slightest based on the name? Again, how about the merchandising side? Sure, ticket sales are the #1 priority for a team, but other revenue streams are worth considering too, especially when looking at the wider fan base. No questions with the popularity of the Jets name choosing another name could cost season tickets. $3500 for season tickets is a major investment for some and an unpopular name coul easily turn off some people who are sitting on the fence regarding making the financial commitment. |
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Post by DKehler on May 17, 2011 23:26:40 GMT -5
Once again, do we not all want the team to be as financially successful as possible? The only way to do that is to reclaim the name. That is a fact.
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Post by gilligan on May 18, 2011 0:07:57 GMT -5
Haha, even when this forum's owner turns a thread into a name debate, Alex is there to lock it up.
Guess it is better than a delete.
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Post by roosta604 on May 18, 2011 0:09:34 GMT -5
Lately I think Chipman just leaked the rumor about not naming it the Jets so that he could create this exact histeria over not naming it The Jets....and then just be like...'ahhh i was just Go Jets Go with you guys'...you'll appreciate it that much more when it works in your favor lol  |
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Post by Dcmac on May 18, 2011 0:31:41 GMT -5
I believed it HAD to be the Jets if we got the Coyotes. We aren't getting the Coyotes now though, it sucks that we supposedly had them within 15 minutes and the COG saved them (for now), but I feel we should have a different name for the Thrashers.
They don't have a connection with the old team and I'm sure a good name can be thought of (no Bears or really old Stanley Cup teams) that exemplifies Manitoba and the whole province can get behind.
If it really has to be the Jets, at least a simple change to Manitoba Jets would be good. We'd still have the Jets, but we'd also have two separate names for two separate eras.
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Post by whowhat on May 18, 2011 0:32:31 GMT -5
For real? There are people who wouldn't support this team because they didn't get the name they want? hah. wow, that's healthy.
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