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Post by thesaurus on May 17, 2011 15:37:00 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with caring or not caring. Sure I would prefer the team name be something that I personally like, but you're not going to please everyone. I'll support the team regardless, why? Because I'm from Winnipeg and I enjoy the NHL regardless if we have a team or not. Getting one here is a great bonus to me and I can't wait to actually be able to follow a team name, whether they're called the Jets, Moose or some dumb name no one likes, it doesn't matter to me. I think that was Kehler's point though... you and many others say you don't care about the name, you will support the team regardless. There are many people though that have said they would not support the team, or would support it less, if it is not named the Jets. Has anyone said they won't support the team or will support it less if it IS called the Jets? And that's why there seems to be nothing to gain and everything to lose by changing the name... If you don't want to support a name because you prefer name A over B and they choose B, then you're not worthy to support the team we get. This ISN'T about the Jets, it's about getting an NHL franchise back in Manitoba. |
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Post by gilligan on May 17, 2011 15:39:10 GMT -5
I don't think I've recently encountered an issue where people felt so strongly that they don't care about it.
So much so that they feel the need to convince everyone else that it does not matter.
A business case saying "I'll support them, so it doesn't matter" is not a strong one. It is a valid fan perspective, but not a business one.
Ultimately, fans of the team want the business to succeed too (or at least survive), but for the most part that is not where the passion lies. It lies with the sport itself, and the team on the ice.
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Post by gilligan on May 17, 2011 15:45:13 GMT -5
I think that was Kehler's point though... you and many others say you don't care about the name, you will support the team regardless. There are many people though that have said they would not support the team, or would support it less, if it is not named the Jets. Has anyone said they won't support the team or will support it less if it IS called the Jets? And that's why there seems to be nothing to gain and everything to lose by changing the name... If you don't want to support a name because you prefer name A over B and they choose B, then you're not worthy to support the team we get. This ISN'T about the Jets, it's about getting an NHL franchise back in Manitoba. A very valid opinion for a die hard fan to have. But a bad basis for making business decisions. Fans can spend time debating what a "real" fans is. They can deride inevitable bandwagon jumpers when the team is doing well, and be proud of their support when the team is not. And they can rightfully say that they're the backbone of the team's support. For the business, it should be about bringing in revenue, and having as broad a fan base as possible. Including people who aren't even hockey fans, people who aren't Manitobans, etc. The balance sheet does not care if the person who gave them the money doesn't even know what "icing" is. |
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Post by jetsorbust on May 17, 2011 15:53:58 GMT -5
If you don't want to support a name because you prefer name A over B and they choose B, then you're not worthy to support the team we get. This ISN'T about the Jets, it's about getting an NHL franchise back in Manitoba. A very valid opinion for a die hard fan to have. But a bad basis for making business decisions. Fans can spend time debating what a "real" fans is. They can deride inevitable bandwagon jumpers when the team is doing well, and be proud of their support when the team is not. And they can rightfully say that they're the backbone of the team's support. For the business, it should be about bringing in revenue, and having as broad a fan base as possible. Including people who aren't even hockey fans, people who aren't Manitobans, etc. The balance sheet does not care if the person who gave them the money doesn't even know what "icing" is. Yeah, no offense meant but clearly that's a terrible business strategy. By that right should we get rid of all the luxury boxes? Those will just be filled with corporate types right? We only want to allow real fans who pay for their own tickets into the building!  |
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Post by prariefire on May 17, 2011 15:57:19 GMT -5
jetsorbust I agree the JETS is the best name all we can do is hope for the best
Would Manitoba Jets be ok?
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Post by gilligan on May 17, 2011 16:03:17 GMT -5
A very valid opinion for a die hard fan to have. But a bad basis for making business decisions. Fans can spend time debating what a "real" fans is. They can deride inevitable bandwagon jumpers when the team is doing well, and be proud of their support when the team is not. And they can rightfully say that they're the backbone of the team's support. For the business, it should be about bringing in revenue, and having as broad a fan base as possible. Including people who aren't even hockey fans, people who aren't Manitobans, etc. The balance sheet does not care if the person who gave them the money doesn't even know what "icing" is. Yeah, no offense meant but clearly that's a terrible business strategy. By that right should we get rid of all the luxury boxes? Those will just be filled with corporate types right? We only want to allow real fans who pay for their own tickets into the building! Many would argue that the ACC is almost void of "true fans", but instead is full of corporate types that don't really care about the Leafs. However, few would argue with how the team is doing financially. Ticket demand is sky high. Merchandise sales are in top 2 in the country (in part because of a nation wide fan base buying it). The Leafs have done a good job in finding ways to get money out of "true" fans, as well as causal fans, as well as corporate types. They don't limit themselves to just Toronto either, despite that being a dream market in and of itself. Only real downfall there is on the hockey side's poor performance, not the business side, which is turning off some of the hockey fans. |
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Post by jetsorbust on May 17, 2011 16:04:45 GMT -5
jetsorbust I agree the JETS is the best name all we can do is hope for the best Would Manitoba Jets be ok? To me, I just really don't understand how Manitoba vs Winnipeg will effect support, so I don't see what the point is of making the change (unless the provincial government steps up and contributes to the team, in which case the name Manitoba would be in exchange for financial support). I could go on and on... but overall, Manitoba Jets would work for me. I don't even care that much about Mb vs Wpg, I just want my JETS back, and to be able to chant GO JETS GO again! I think Mb Jets sounds a bit funny but we'd probably get used to it... I really don't buy in to the logic of increased support from surrounding areas (especially when we're trying to tap into Saskatchewan, NW Ontario and North Dakota) just by naming them Manitoba, but if that's how it has to be than I think Manitoba Jets is a good compromise that would please more people. |
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Post by prariefire on May 17, 2011 16:10:55 GMT -5
jetsorbust I agree the JETS is the best name all we can do is hope for the best Would Manitoba Jets be ok? To me, I just really don't understand how Manitoba vs Winnipeg will effect support, so I don't see what the point is of making the change (unless the provincial government steps up and contributes to the team, in which case the name Manitoba would be in exchange for financial support). I was just curious because the provincial government might ask for this for some tax breaks or support of the TNSE purchase in some way. I know nothing of this just pure speculation on my part! I could go on and on... but overall, Manitoba Jets would work for me. I don't even care that much about Mb vs Wpg, I just want my JETS back, and to be able to chant GO JETS GO again! I think Mb Jets sounds a bit funny but we'd probably get used to it... I really don't buy in to the logic of increased support from surrounding areas (especially when we're trying to tap into Saskatchewan, NW Ontario and North Dakota) just by naming them Manitoba, but if that's how it has to be than I think Manitoba Jets is a good compromise that would please more people. I was just curious and I think maybe there might be some money available from the provincial government |
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Post by jetsorbust on May 17, 2011 16:20:40 GMT -5
To me, I just really don't understand how Manitoba vs Winnipeg will effect support, so I don't see what the point is of making the change (unless the provincial government steps up and contributes to the team, in which case the name Manitoba would be in exchange for financial support). I was just curious because the provincial government might ask for this for some tax breaks or support of the TNSE purchase in some way. I know nothing of this just pure speculation on my part! I could go on and on... but overall, Manitoba Jets would work for me. I don't even care that much about Mb vs Wpg, I just want my JETS back, and to be able to chant GO JETS GO again! I think Mb Jets sounds a bit funny but we'd probably get used to it... I really don't buy in to the logic of increased support from surrounding areas (especially when we're trying to tap into Saskatchewan, NW Ontario and North Dakota) just by naming them Manitoba, but if that's how it has to be than I think Manitoba Jets is a good compromise that would please more people. I was just curious and I think maybe there might be some money available from the provincial government I've heard people allude to this... If the province kicked in some support in return for naming the team Manitoba _______ I would understand it. Otherwise I don't, as I don't think it would help (or hurt) TNSE to name them Manitoba vs Winnipeg. But for me, Jets is the kicker! |
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Post by prariefire on May 17, 2011 16:23:15 GMT -5
Sorry to be so in your face about this but as I said earlier I think there is something here that we do not know. There is something going on in the back room meetings that we will not be privy to until this is all over!
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Post by gilligan on May 17, 2011 16:29:59 GMT -5
Sorry to be so in your face about this but as I said earlier I think there is something here that we do not know. There is something going on in the back room meetings that we will not be privy to until this is all over! Honestly, I think it might just be as simple as TNSE leadership doesn't really care for the Winnipeg Jets. Though I'd be happier to hear if there is more to it than that. |
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Post by DKehler on May 17, 2011 16:35:06 GMT -5
Sorry to be so in your face about this but as I said earlier I think there is something here that we do not know. There is something going on in the back room meetings that we will not be privy to until this is all over! Honestly, I think it might just be as simple as TNSE leadership doesn't really care for the Winnipeg Jets. Though I'd be happier to hear if there is more to it than that. That is my feeling as well, that TN, for some reason, doesn't want the Winnipeg Jets name. I would hope they would be wise enough to put aside whatever personal feelings they may have and do what makes the most sense for their business, which means, in my opinion, reclaiming our rich history. That is something that no amount of money can buy. We are lucky to have it. Why would we throw it away? |
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Post by jpjets15 on May 17, 2011 17:12:18 GMT -5
I think that was Kehler's point though... you and many others say you don't care about the name, you will support the team regardless. There are many people though that have said they would not support the team, or would support it less, if it is not named the Jets. Has anyone said they won't support the team or will support it less if it IS called the Jets? And that's why there seems to be nothing to gain and everything to lose by changing the name... If you don't want to support a name because you prefer name A over B and they choose B, then you're not worthy to support the team we get. This ISN'T about the Jets, it's about getting an NHL franchise back in Manitoba. I don't think that that's what people mean here. It won't stop me from buying tickets if they aren't call "Jets". It could be argued that buying tickets is a far stronger path to "supporting" a team than jersey/shirt-purchases... At least financially (which is what mostly matters in the end). While it won't reduce ticket sales, what it COULD do is reduce the general population's "attachment" to the team right from the get-go. Are they going to sell out every game regardless? Absolutely. It's NHL hockey, and Winnipeg likes good hockey. However, the fanbase will perhaps be less passionate. The team may be less "loved", so to speak. It will take more years for ppl to get attached to the team if they're called "Moose". It's only my opinion, of course. This is evidently debatable. |
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Post by whenshesgone on May 17, 2011 18:49:32 GMT -5
I can't believe that accusation is still being thrown at people (about not being a true hockey fan if you are arguing to keep the Jets brand). It is so patently untrue that I can only conclude that the people voicing it are, what, fifteen years old? Worse, it's not an argument that can rightfully be made on the back of loyalty (loyalty to Winnipeg, loyalty to TNSE), because it's loyalty that has us so adamant about wanting the Jets name.
Obviously this can go back and forth ad nauseum. My own sense is that TSNE will be making a grave mistake if they drop 'the Jets' as this team's name. It will undercut the excitement for many people, weakening that rebirth of attachment and loyalty and all the memories that give them meaning.
I also don't quite understand this bizarre notion that the Jets are now in Phoenix. No, they aren't. In Phoenix the team is the Coyotes. The Jets ceased to exist the day the team left Winnipeg. Or, to put it another, they never left, and no matter what the team's name that steps onto the ice in Winnipeg, that legacy will remain, like it or not. Why not embrace it?
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Post by thesaurus on May 17, 2011 19:21:09 GMT -5
I can't believe that accusation is still being thrown at people (about not being a true hockey fan if you are arguing to keep the Jets brand). It is so patently untrue that I can only conclude that the people voicing it are, what, fifteen years old? Worse, it's not an argument that can rightfully be made on the back of loyalty (loyalty to Winnipeg, loyalty to TNSE), because it's loyalty that has us so adamant about wanting the Jets name. Obviously this can go back and forth ad nauseum. My own sense is that TSNE will be making a grave mistake if they drop 'the Jets' as this team's name. It will undercut the excitement for many people, weakening that rebirth of attachment and loyalty and all the memories that give them meaning. I also don't quite understand this bizarre notion that the Jets are now in Phoenix. No, they aren't. In Phoenix the team is the Coyotes. The Jets ceased to exist the day the team left Winnipeg. Or, to put it another, they never left, and no matter what the team's name that steps onto the ice in Winnipeg, that legacy will remain, like it or not. Why not embrace it? Once again you're missing the point. I have no problem with the Jets name, I have a problem with people immediately shooting down every other possible name there is because it isn't the Jets. If you're not willing to support the team regardless of name then there's no need for you. It's like supporting a team because of one player and then the player leaves so you switch allegiances. Fan of the team first and foremost no matter what the name. |
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Post by whenshesgone on May 17, 2011 19:43:03 GMT -5
Hmm, who is missing the point here? I will support the team; just as everyone sharing my views (more or less) will support the team. Need I repeat that statement to make it clearer? It's not an either/or decision. But will my heart be in it as much if the team is not recognizing the history and legacy of pro hockey in Winnipeg? Wish i could say 'yes' but I can't. So, you've got your history with the sport and that's fine for you. I in turn have mine, but it seems to trigger some weird overblown judgementalism, and that's too bad
I understand you want to support the team etc and I'm fine with that. I want the return of the Jets because that team is part of my history -- is this reason to slam the door in my face?
Anyway, my last post on this for a while (you'll be relieved to read).
Cheers.
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Post by thesaurus on May 17, 2011 19:46:41 GMT -5
Hmm, who is missing the point here? I will support the team; just as everyone sharing my views (more or less) will support the team. Need I repeat that statement to make it clearer? It's not an either/or decision. But will my heart be in it as much if the team is not recognizing the history and legacy of pro hockey in Winnipeg? Wish i could say 'yes' but I can't. So, you've got your history with the sport and that's fine for you. I in turn have mine, but it seems to trigger some weird overblown judgementalism, and that's too bad I understand you want to support the team etc and I'm fine with that. I want the return of the Jets because that team is part of my history -- is this reason to slam the door in my face? Anyway, my last post on this for a while (you'll be relieved to read). Cheers. Even with the Jets name though you're not going to have the Jets history. All of the Jets records and history belong to the Phoenix Coyotes whether you like it or not. Dale Hawechuk will always be the Coyotes leading scorer, not ours if/when we get the Thrashers. Our history will be theirs, Ilya Kovalchuk and Dany Heatley will be the biggest stars in our hockey history so associating the new team with the Jets just won't make sense to me. |
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Post by DKehler on May 17, 2011 19:53:31 GMT -5
Hmm, who is missing the point here? I will support the team; just as everyone sharing my views (more or less) will support the team. Need I repeat that statement to make it clearer? It's not an either/or decision. But will my heart be in it as much if the team is not recognizing the history and legacy of pro hockey in Winnipeg? Wish i could say 'yes' but I can't. So, you've got your history with the sport and that's fine for you. I in turn have mine, but it seems to trigger some weird overblown judgementalism, and that's too bad I understand you want to support the team etc and I'm fine with that. I want the return of the Jets because that team is part of my history -- is this reason to slam the door in my face? Anyway, my last post on this for a while (you'll be relieved to read). Cheers. Even with the Jets name though you're not going to have the Jets history. All of the Jets records and history belong to the Phoenix Coyotes whether you like it or not. Dale Hawechuk will always be the Coyotes leading scorer, not ours if/when we get the Thrashers. Our history will be theirs, Ilya Kovalchuk and Dany Heatley will be the biggest stars in our hockey history so associating the new team with the Jets just won't make sense to me. There is no reason whatsoever why what you said has to be so. The history of the Winnipeg Jets can very easily be transferred or given back to us. It wouldn't be the first time in pro sports. |
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Post by gilligan on May 17, 2011 20:44:53 GMT -5
I can't believe that accusation is still being thrown at people (about not being a true hockey fan if you are arguing to keep the Jets brand). It is so patently untrue that I can only conclude that the people voicing it are, what, fifteen years old? Worse, it's not an argument that can rightfully be made on the back of loyalty (loyalty to Winnipeg, loyalty to TNSE), because it's loyalty that has us so adamant about wanting the Jets name. Obviously this can go back and forth ad nauseum. My own sense is that TSNE will be making a grave mistake if they drop 'the Jets' as this team's name. It will undercut the excitement for many people, weakening that rebirth of attachment and loyalty and all the memories that give them meaning. I also don't quite understand this bizarre notion that the Jets are now in Phoenix. No, they aren't. In Phoenix the team is the Coyotes. The Jets ceased to exist the day the team left Winnipeg. Or, to put it another, they never left, and no matter what the team's name that steps onto the ice in Winnipeg, that legacy will remain, like it or not. Why not embrace it? Once again you're missing the point. I have no problem with the Jets name, I have a problem with people immediately shooting down every other possible name there is because it isn't the Jets. If you're not willing to support the team regardless of name then there's no need for you. It's like supporting a team because of one player and then the player leaves so you switch allegiances. Fan of the team first and foremost no matter what the name. I doubt many in Winnipeg will not support the team over the name. However, it may affect how much they support it, and how passionately. Brand power baby. For those outside Manitoba, what are the factors in picking a favorite NHL team? Does their support matter to TNSE, and to Winnipeg's NHL fans? And will the team name have an impact there? If there is no use for me in your fan base, fine. I'll be happy that you got your team back. It just won't be "my" team. Really, there is no reason for the new team to be my team anyhow, but there is that pesky childhood attachment to an old team that I know would sway me enough to be a fan. One that buys merchandise, one that provides eyeballs to increase regional TV ratings, one that'd make the effort to see the team play live. I know it isn't logical, but if isn't the Jets, I won't be cheering for them. I simply would have no reason to care about them. I have no idea how many there are out there who are in a similar position. |
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Post by jetsorbust on May 17, 2011 21:00:48 GMT -5
Once again you're missing the point. I have no problem with the Jets name, I have a problem with people immediately shooting down every other possible name there is because it isn't the Jets. If you're not willing to support the team regardless of name then there's no need for you. It's like supporting a team because of one player and then the player leaves so you switch allegiances. Fan of the team first and foremost no matter what the name. I doubt many in Winnipeg will not support the team over the name. However, it may affect how much they support it, and how passionately. Brand power baby. For those outside Manitoba, what are the factors in picking a favorite NHL team? Does their support matter to TNSE, and to Winnipeg's NHL fans? And will the team name have an impact there? If there is no use for me in your fan base, fine. I'll be happy that you got your team back. It just won't be "my" team. Really, there is no reason for the new team to be my team anyhow, but there is that pesky childhood attachment to an old team that I know would sway me enough to be a fan. One that buys merchandise, one that provides eyeballs to increase regional TV ratings, one that'd make the effort to see the team play live. I know it isn't logical, but if isn't the Jets, I won't be cheering for them. I simply would have no reason to care about them. I have no idea how many there are out there who are in a similar position. Yes, I'm sorry but the arguement that "If you're not willing to support the team no matter what then we DON'T WANT YOUR SUPPORT" is just foolish, it's peoples emotions getting the best of them in my opinion. I understand the basic idea, that we need true passionate fans and not bandwagon fans. But guess what? The team needs all the support it can get. Not to survive, but to maximize profits. Merchandise sales are the biggest thing I can see being affected by the name... ticket sales themself probably not so much. Anyways, as I've said many times. I can tell you 100% for sure that I have the money in the bank for season tickets, I will be buying season tickets, and I will be at all 41 games each year for at least the forseeable future. If the team is named Jets 2.0, I'll be buying tons of merchandise. (Without exagerating in the last 10 years I have bought or been gifted 4 Jets jerseys, ~8 sweaters, ~ 30 shirts, ~5 hats, 2 touques, signed helmets, gloves, magazines, cards, bar stools, neon lights... I can't even name it all). So do not tell me I'm not a true fan. I am willing to wager that not 1 person on this board has more Jets "stuff" than me, and as a 25 year old it's almost all been purchased in the last 10 years. (as a friendly wager, if anyone would like to compare PM me and we can bet a 6 pack or something on it!). Anyways, my point is you can question my loyalty as a fan if you want, but you would be wrong. But if the team is NOT named the Jets, I simply won't be buying any merchandise when the team comes back, at least not any time soon. I'll wear some of my closet full of Jets schwag... That's my personal feelings on the name, and not everyone may be the same but I can guarantee you that there are other people who would be put off by a non-Jets name. In one way or another, ignoring what your fan base wants will translate into less revenue, that's just a fact. |
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